Intentional Single Preference (ISP) is Bad

DeltaBetaBaby · #1 10-10-2011, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DubaiSis

I think the policy is pretty widespread (if not true of all NPC sororities) that if you invite a legacy to preference they have to be on your first bid list so in your daughters' cases, they were pretty safe. But even so, it sounds like you gave them sound advice. I guess you'll never know if daughter #2 got her first or back up choice, but it sounds like it all worked out in the end.

I think this is not guaranteed in any group, because there is always the possibility of having more legacies at pref than quota. Do they get put at the top of the bid list? Probably, for most groups, but if it comes down to deciding among legacies, some may not make the first list.

Jill1228 · #2 10-11-2011, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

I think this is not guaranteed in any group, because there is always the possibility of having more legacies at pref than quota. Do they get put at the top of the bid list? Probably, for most groups, but if it comes down to deciding among legacies, some may not make the first list.

First bid list is in alphabetical order, so if the legacy has a last name starting with A, she will be at the top of the first bid list

GammaPhi88 · #3 10-11-2011, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jill1228

First bid list is in alphabetical order, so if the legacy has a last name starting with A, she will be at the top of the first bid list

Most likely, since I think most sororities do it that way. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there one or two that don't?

DeltaBetaBaby · #4 10-11-2011, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jill1228

First bid list is in alphabetical order, so if the legacy has a last name starting with A, she will be at the top of the first bid list

No. If you have 30 legacies, and quota is 25, you must decide which 25 go on the first list. You don't just alphabetize those 30 and say sorry to Suzie Zimmerman.

AOII Angel · #5 10-11-2011, 09:37 AM

Groups that require their legacies be on their first bid list would release any legacies they couldn't issue bids to before pref so this wouldn't be a problem. If quota is 40 and you have 50 legacies left before prefs, you've gotta release 10 of those legacies. Most chapters would have released them earlier anyway since it's not desireable to have a pledge class full of only legacies.

Mevara · #6 10-11-2011, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Groups that require their legacies be on their first bid list would release any legacies they couldn't issue bids to before pref so this wouldn't be a problem. If quota is 40 and you have 50 legacies left before prefs, you've gotta release 10 of those legacies. Most chapters would have released them earlier anyway since it's not desireable to have a pledge class full of only legacies.

Maybe it is different at your chapter but our quota range is not set until Pref. So how would a chapter know to release 10 legacies before Pref? Not that we have this problem since we don't get very many legacies.

Also why would it not be desirable to have a pledge class full of legacies?

DeltaBetaBaby · #7 10-11-2011, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mevara

Maybe it is different at your chapter but our quota range is not set until Pref. So how would a chapter know to release 10 legacies before Pref? Not that we have this problem since we don't get very many legacies.

Also why would it not be desirable to have a pledge class full of legacies?

Right.

Anyway, this is a lot of nit-picking, and I think my original point was lost.

A woman who is a legacy to a chapter should NOT ISP that chapter thinking she is a sure thing. Her legacy status is not some magical protection against ending up bidless.

DubaiSis · #8 10-11-2011, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mevara

Maybe it is different at your chapter but our quota range is not set until Pref. So how would a chapter know to release 10 legacies before Pref?

Also why would it not be desirable to have a pledge class full of legacies?

I'm sure the battle over legacies happens the night before preference, and making this estimation is part of the process. Although quota can't be stated for certain until after preference, it can probably be guessed within a handful. But this would be an additional reason why you wouldn't want a full pledge class of legacies. You'd REALLY be hamstrung about who you can invite to preference - 40 girls you have to have and another 40 (or whatever) who you'll get if any of those 40 legacies decide to go another way. If you're a high, oh crap, what's the phrase, return-rate chapter and you can only invite a few more than the expected pledge class, you'd REALLY have no flexibility.

I doubt anybody from a high performing chapter on a huge pledge-class campus is going to say how it works, but I'd be willing to guess they say at some point early in rush that they are willing to take 20 legacies (or whatever) and work around those numbers from the get-go. A quota within a quota, maybe?

33girl · #9 10-11-2011, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mevara

Also why would it not be desirable to have a pledge class full of legacies?

Because legacy doesn't always = stellar rushee or stellar member. Of your chapter, or of any chapter (or of any sorority, for that matter)

Also, it can kind of suck if you feel that you have essentially no choice in who you want to be your members - say you meet an awesome girl but she has no chance of getting in since she's a 1st gen college student and there are enough legacies to fill your pledge class and then some.

AOII Angel · #10 10-12-2011, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mevara

Maybe it is different at your chapter but our quota range is not set until Pref. So how would a chapter know to release 10 legacies before Pref? Not that we have this problem since we don't get very many legacies.

Also why would it not be desirable to have a pledge class full of legacies?

Most campuses know an approximate number for quota through out the week. Since you don't have this problem, it's silly to nit pick. For the chapters that do have "more legacies than quota," I have yet to hear of any of them pledged a class that is 100% legacy. Reasons to not pledge a full class of legacies 1. Your chapter likes other girls better. 2. You want to appear inclusive as an organization and not elitist. 3. Your legacies don't all meet your MS criteria. I could go on, but I'm sure you get the picture. Chapters that actually have this "problem" likely have a pretty good method to keep from having too many legacies at Pref so they don't break their own rules since a sister whose legacy doesn't receive a bid after going to pref would start WORLD WAR III!

GreekGirley · #11 10-21-2011, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Groups that require their legacies be on their first bid list would release any legacies they couldn't issue bids to before pref so this wouldn't be a problem. If quota is 40 and you have 50 legacies left before prefs, you've gotta release 10 of those legacies. Most chapters would have released them earlier anyway since it's not desireable to have a pledge class full of only legacies.

Due to RFM, quota is not a defined number until after bid lists are turned in. Up until that point, it's a 'quota range' and can be quite large...a differential of 10 or more is not uncommon with schools who chapter total is over 100. So, chapters have no way of knowing if their quota will be 40 or 50. So, if they have 50 legacies at pref and quota winds up being 42, then they cannot list all their legacies on the first bid list. Not the fault of the chapter. Just the way the system works.

AlphaFrog · #12 10-21-2011, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreekGirley

The crux of the matter is that PNMs are just not told how quota additions work and that doing an ISP will prevent them from being a quota addition...or even what "quota addition" means and how chapters get them. It is unfortunate and happens every year across the country with an average of about 50% getting what they want and the other 50% being left without a bid.

Bottom line is that if the girl would be THAT unhappy in her 2nd (or 3rd or 4th) choice, then those chapters at the bottom probably know it. I mean, if she feels strongly enough to not even list the group on her pref card?? Come on...you KNOW that chapter has a definite hold on that vibe and will place her way down on the list. Now, that doesn't mean that she won't still get them...but the odds are much more likely that she'll get her 1st choice.

So, what I"m saying is that Greek Life at the schools and the Gamma Chis need to do a better job of telling them WHY it is bad to ISP...not just "don't do it"...because we all know that this generation is one who needs reasons for what they do. They won't typically follow blindly with a recommendation from someone they've not even met until a week before rush starts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreekGirley

Due to RFM, quota is not a defined number until after bid lists are turned in. Up until that point, it's a 'quota range' and can be quite large...a differential of 10 or more is not uncommon with schools who chapter total is over 100. So, chapters have no way of knowing if their quota will be 40 or 50. So, if they have 50 legacies at pref and quota winds up being 42, then they cannot list all their legacies on the first bid list. Not the fault of the chapter. Just the way the system works.

AOII Angel · #13 10-21-2011, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreekGirley

Due to RFM, quota is not a defined number until after bid lists are turned in. Up until that point, it's a 'quota range' and can be quite large...a differential of 10 or more is not uncommon with schools who chapter total is over 100. So, chapters have no way of knowing if their quota will be 40 or 50. So, if they have 50 legacies at pref and quota winds up being 42, then they cannot list all their legacies on the first bid list. Not the fault of the chapter. Just the way the system works.

Yeah....no. I'm quite aware of how RFM works. chapters with that many legacies have to make these decisions early on and estimate the probable quota so they don't end up with a legacy not getting a bid. For chapters with this issue, they wouldn't invite 50 legacies to pref. If their is a likelihood that they won't have space to guarantee them a bid, they get released before that is an issue. Have you heard of estimating? It's a pretty good way to keep from pissing off a lot of alumnae.

Splash · #14 10-23-2011, 11:21 AM

I have a question. What if a girl prefs at a top tier and 2 middle tier houses all of whom usually make quota and her school has guarenteed bid matching. Let's say she's not high enough on her first choice's list (the top tier) to get a bid, so if she SIP, she would be left bid-less. However, let's say at preference, she was incredibly rude to chapters 2 and 3 and made it clear she did not want their bid and then listed all 3 chapters on her card. All 3 chapters would make quota and she would not be on any of the bid lists. She would be eligible as a QA. Would she then get her choice? Not trying to start anything, just wondering.

AlphaFrog · #15 10-11-2011, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

No. If you have 30 legacies, and quota is 25, you must decide which 25 go on the first list. You don't just alphabetize those 30 and say sorry to Suzie Zimmerman.

She knows that, she was making a joke. Your first bid list is your first bid list and it doesn't REALLY matter if they are in alphabetical order, height order, or in order by how white their teeth are...so, the chapters that alphabetize only technically have their legacies on the *top* of their bid list if they happen to fall that way in the alphabet.