Colleges With The Most Students In Fraternities: US News

[LaneSig]

Just an fyi: Clearwater Christian College is a church of Christ affiliated school. They don't have fraternities & sororities per se, but similar groups called Social Clubs. Clearwater requires all of its students to join one of the social clubs for religious purposes. The clubs meet for bible study and fellowship. So, everytime CCC is called for 100% participation in Greek life, not so much.

[amIblue?]

Originally Posted by LaneSig

Just an fyi: Clearwater Christian College is a church of Christ affiliated school. They don't have fraternities & sororities per se, but similar groups called Social Clubs. Clearwater requires all of its students to join one of the social clubs for religious purposes. The clubs meet for bible study and fellowship. So, everytime CCC is called for 100% participation in Greek life, not so much.

Cosign.

If it's required, it really doesn't count. That's like a school having a PE requirement.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by LaneSig

Just an fyi: Clearwater Christian College is a church of Christ affiliated school. They don't have fraternities & sororities per se, but similar groups called Social Clubs. Clearwater requires all of its students to join one of the social clubs for religious purposes. The clubs meet for bible study and fellowship. So, everytime CCC is called for 100% participation in Greek life, not so much.

Hijack: I recently applied to be an adjunct at a evangelical Christian University, and found out they won't consider non-Christians at all, for any positions. I had no idea you could still be living in the dark ages and have a legitimate accreditation.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

Hijack: I recently applied to be an adjunct at a evangelical Christian University, and found out they won't consider non-Christians at all, for any positions. I had no idea you could still be living in the dark ages and have a legitimate accreditation.

As a Christian school, it is their right to do so, and I fully applaud them exercising that right.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

As a Christian school, it is their right to do so, and I fully applaud them exercising that right.

And I fully believe that an institution funded largely by the government should not be discriminating based on religion.

In a practical sense, though, are you really providing students with a well-rounded education if they are never exposed to anyone with a different background? It would be one thing if they were only awarding degrees in ministry-related majors, but this school has programs in things like business and criminal justice. If someone goes out into the business world assuming that everyone will have a similar mindset, it seems like they'd be, well, a bit naive.

(ETA: I want to be clear this is NOT true of all evangelical Christian schools. I know of others that absolutely hire non-Christians.)

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

And I fully believe that an institution funded largely by the government should not be discriminating based on religion.

Are they funded largely by the government?

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

In a practical sense, though, are you really providing students with a well-rounded education if they are never exposed to anyone with a different background? It would be one thing if they were only awarding degrees in ministry-related majors, but this school has programs in things like business and criminal justice. If someone goes out into the business world assuming that everyone will have a similar mindset, it seems like they'd be, well, a bit naive.

"Well-rounded education" is subjective and relative. The students who attend that school are doing so for reasons beyond being competitive in the world market.

[amIblue?]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Are they funded largely by the government?

"Well-rounded education" is subjective and relative. The students who attend that school are doing so for reasons beyond being competitive in the world market.

If they have students who are receiving Pell Grants, Federal Student Loans, etc., then I would say probably so.

Cosign point 2.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

Hijack: I recently applied to be an adjunct at a evangelical Christian University, and found out they won't consider non-Christians at all, for any positions. I had no idea you could still be living in the dark ages and have a legitimate accreditation.

You call it the Dark Ages and they call it protecting what is theirs. Colleges and universities find ways to do that all of the time, especially private schools. Good for them.

And not all evangelical Christian Universities have those restrictions. But, if you work for one you have to live up to certain criteria. In other words, you can't think you are coming there to change stuff.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

You call it the Dark Ages and they call it protecting what is theirs. Colleges and universities find ways to do that all of the time, especially private schools. Good for them.

Can you give other examples of this? I'm not doubting you; I'm honestly curious. I was really taken aback by the whole thing, as nobody has ever told me "you can't apply to this job because you are Jewish" before. While I realize they are private, they certainly get government money, and that seems a strange exception to me.

As I noted above (and you did, too), not all are like this. I spoke with another evangelical Christian university that was more interested in hearing my thoughts on their values than my specific theology. Certainly, I understand that some schools emphasize things like social responsibility, or volunteerism, or community, etc., and they want faculty who fit with those things. That's really different, in my mind, from "you can't have this job unless you believe in Jesus".

For example, are HBCUs allowed to make a blanket statement that they hire only African American faculty? Or do they seek out faculty of all races who understand the history and roles of HBCUs?

[AlphaFrog]

So, DBB, would you be opposed to a Jewish affiliated university requiring all staff to be Jewish? I wouldn't. Judaism is complex (to me, as an outsider) and I feel that if someone wanted to attend a university that emphasized Judaism they wouldn't want to be taught by a bunch of Gentiles that don't understand the culture and religion.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

So, DBB, would you be opposed to a Jewish affiliated university requiring all staff to be Jewish? I wouldn't. Judaism is complex (to me, as an outsider) and I feel that if someone wanted to attend a university that emphasized Judaism they wouldn't want to be taught by a bunch of Gentiles that don't understand the culture and religion.

It depends what you are teaching. In a seminary or Yeshiva, obviously the faculty are all going to be of that faith.

In the middle would be topics like humanities. I could see a Jewish university wanting to emphasize the role of Jews in certain topics. However, if someone was knowledgeable about the Jewish experience in, say, world history, it should not matter whether they are actually a Jew.

I'm not sure, though, how you would "emphasize Judaism" while teaching business or mathematics or information technology.

And does the janitor need to be Jewish? And the receptionist? And the financial aid coordinator?

(incidentally, if you were to open a university in the US and hire only Jews, you would end up hiring very, very few non-whites, and you'd end up discriminating based on race whether you had intended to or not)

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

Can you give other examples of this? I'm not trying to argue; I'm honestly curious. I was really taken aback by the whole thing, as nobody has ever told me "you can't apply to this job because you are Jewish" before. While I realize they are private, they certainly get government money, and that seems a strange exception to me.

For example, Research I institutions will not hire faculty who are not research focused. If you are primarily interested in teaching and connecting with students, you will be frowned upon at many Research I institutions.

This may not frighten people and make people feel discriminated against but the faculty who would qualify for most Research I employment across the country tend to be of a particular race and ethnicity, socioeconomic status, gender; and religion and sexual orientation are also strongly linked at some schools. In other words, you have to mesh well with the purpose of the institution, mesh well with the faculty, mesh with the study body, and be able to do what needs to be done with little backtalk. This is not formally stated but it still is what it is.

Technically, it isn't because you are Jewish but because you are not an evangelical Christian. Not every Christian would be hired by this institution depending on the circumstances.

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

For example, are HBCUs allowed to make a blanket statement that they hire only African American faculty? Or do they seek out faculty of all races who understand the history and roles of HBCUs?

The average HBCU's faculty is majority non-Black. I think that is deplorable for a number of reasons. It is good to hire non-Blacks but to allow faculty to be overwhelming white is horrendous. White faculty have plenty of colleges and universities to choose from.

Across HBCUs, faculty are not required to understand the history and roles of HBCUs.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

For example, Research I institutions will not hire faculty who are not research focused. If you are primarily interested in teaching and connecting with students, you will be frowned upon at many Research I institutions.

This may not frighten people and make people feel discriminated against but the faculty who would qualify for most Research I employment across the country tend to be of a particular race and ethnicity, socioeconomic status, gender; and religion and sexual orientation are also strongly linked at some schools. In other words, you have to mesh well with the purpose of the institution, mesh well with the faculty, mesh with the study body, and be able to do what needs to be done with little backtalk. This is not formally stated but it still is what it is.

Yes, I totally understand that things other than qualifications come into play in the hiring process. It is very unfortunate. Many schools have policies attempting to combat these things, but it is an uphill battle, in practice. That said, at every R1 I can think of, if someone was told they were not hired because of their religion, they would run screaming to the EEOC.

Honestly, this campus clearly wouldn't have been a good fit for me, and it's good that I found that out early on. I just can't, for the life of me, figure out what my belief system has to do with my ability to adjunct lecture in an undergraduate math class.

(Thanks for the info about HBCUs. I find it very surprising.)

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

Yes, I totally understand that things other than qualifications come into play in the hiring process. It is very unfortunate. Many schools have policies attempting to combat these things, but it is an uphill battle, in practice. That said, at every R1 I can think of, if someone was told they were not hired because of their religion, they would run screaming to the EEOC.

It would not be so overt. If these things were so overt then EEOC claims would not be so difficult.

You were told (I assume told?) about religion because of the nature of the institution. There were other reasons beyond religion but religion was the defining factor. Just as R1s have other reasons beyond research but research is the defining factor.

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

Honestly, this campus clearly wouldn't have been a good fit for me, and it's good that I found that out early on. I just can't, for the life of me, figure out what my belief system has to do with my ability to adjunct lecture in an undergraduate math class.

They knew that.

Adjuncts and visiting instructors are only hired on a need basis. If we don't need them or do not see a good fit, they don't get hired. And they can be quickly non-renewed if necessary. If fulltime faculty have to meet certain formal and informal criteria, please believe that adjuncts and visiting instructors are considered much more easily found and easily replaced. For instance, an adjunct who is nonChristian in that context may feel less of a responsibility to the institution and therefore may feel free to expouse certain viewpoints...even in an undergrad math class. It happens all of the time with adjuncts, VIs, and TAs. Contracted fulltime associate and assistant professors (including those who are tenure track for institutions with tenure) are more often than not expected to have more of a vested interest in the institution. It is easier to hold someone accountable when they have that fulltime contract and vested interest beyond doing parttime work for a paycheck.

[amIblue?]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

Hijack: I recently applied to be an adjunct at a evangelical Christian University, and found out they won't consider non-Christians at all, for any positions. I had no idea you could still be living in the dark ages and have a legitimate accreditation.

It's absolutely shameful, but for the most part, people who go to those over the top evangelical schools aren't trying to be in the real world. They're trying to avoid anyone who isn't just like they are and who doesn't believe the exact same way they believe.

Personally, I am grateful for the self-segregation. I have known some folks in my life who believe that they need to pray over every single decision they make: i.e., stopping in the middle of Wal-Mart (where else?) to decide whether or not to buy bubble bath. It's tiresome. I've never thought that God was too concerned one way or the other about bubbles in anyone's bath. I figure God's more of a take bubbles or leave them kind of fellow.