Why doesn't NPC deal with the lack of info?

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by carnation

Do all Rho Chis get the same NPC recruitment counselor book? Because I'm thinking of all the RC errors that I've heard about or actually heard over the years...and it seems too that several, when confronted with a question that they don't remember how to answer, just wing it.

I can still remember hearing a girl in my own group asking our counselor, "What happens if we don't get asked back to 4 skit parties? Or any parties?" The RC stared into space and said, as if she were pulling the answer out of the heavens, "Oh, that never happens, don't worry!" The girl was cut from everyone that night. I remember reading CutiePie2000's recruitment story and it was similar.

A valuable addition to a RC book might be, "When in doubt, ask Panhellenic. Don't wing it!!!!!"

As far as I know there is NO standardized recruitment counselor training program or even standardized PX selection criteria. It's all up to the individual Panhellenics.

So you do have some schools at which the counselors are VERY informed and understand the importance of their roles.

Then you have other schools where being a PX = cute shirts, chapter guessing, chants, and fluffiness. I remember hearing from a PX friend of mine at another school that the extend of her PX "training" = a test on the symbols/facts of other chapters on campus.

[TriDeltaSallie]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

As far as I know there is NO standardized recruitment counselor training program or even standardized PX selection criteria. It's all up to the individual Panhellenics.

So you do have some schools at which the counselors are VERY informed and understand the importance of their roles.

Then you have other schools where being a PX = cute shirts, chapter guessing, chants, and fluffiness. I remember hearing from a PX friend of mine at another school that the extend of her PX "training" = a test on the symbols/facts of other chapters on campus.

And this is what I don't understand (which goes back to my original question). I don't understand why NPC doesn't exercise more control over the process unless they feel that it just isn't possible.

The Rho Chis are, in reality, representatives of NPC aren't they? The collegiate panhels are local manifestations of the national organization. The Rho Chis are selected to be impartial, informed representatives of the collegiate panhel because the Exec obviously can't do it alone.

But I still don't understand why there aren't more rigid guidelines given and expected for something this important.

[TriDeltaSallie]

Originally Posted by Titchou

The person - who for me- coined the phrase was a 21 year old senior chapter president during recruitment when discussing the merits of a 32 year old married with 2 children PNM. She questioned why the woman would want to associate with " a bunch of hormone driven twits." I credit her with being an astute observer of her own generation...and I quote her often.

Do you really think this is an astute observation of this generation? I'm not trying to pick a fight. I am honestly surprised that we as Greek women would want our members to be referred to in such a manner. It flies in the face of everything that our national organizations are striving to promote. Just look at the taglines the various NPC groups are adopting and people have in their signatures. It is about being strong women of purpose. Worded in different ways, but that's the reality that every group is trying to encourage.

[ta kala]

Originally Posted by TriDeltaSallie

And this is what I don't understand (which goes back to my original question). I don't understand why NPC doesn't exercise more control over the process unless they feel that it just isn't possible.

The Rho Chis are, in reality, representatives of NPC aren't they? The collegiate panhels are local manifestations of the national organization. The Rho Chis are selected to be impartial, informed representatives of the collegiate panhel because the Exec obviously can't do it alone.

But I still don't understand why there aren't more rigid guidelines given and expected for something this important.

As I fraternity/sorority professional, I was recently asked what the most stressful part of my job was. I replied Panhellenic recruitment. Why? Because of how many people involved:

Potential new members
Potential new members' parents

Current chapter members
Chapter alumni
Local chapter advisors
National organization advisors

Panhellenic executive board
Recruitment counselors
NPC Area Advisor
NPC Delegates
RFM specialist

My boss (and her boss, etc)

There are so many people who have an opinion or a role with this type of event, that I think it would be impossible for NPC to put forth more guidelines than they already do (which I think are appropriate) and expect all institutions to abide by them.

At the end of the day, I need to do the work informed by my institution's priorities, and a NPC suggestion or guideline may or may not align with what I need to do.

[DGTess]

Originally Posted by TriDeltaSallie

Maybe I'm just naive, but given that there have been SO many threads over the past couple years that clearly indicate a communication breakdown regarding signing preference cards, ISP, COB, quota additions, etc... Why doesn't NPC do something to deal with this?

I know there are many national leaders who read here, NPC leaders who read here, etc. They have to be aware of the problem. I don't understand why every. single. campus panhellenic doesn't use the same NPC issued document that clearly explains the process with a signature line for the PNM and the Rho Chi to indicate they have read it and understand it. It's too important to leave it to chance and hope that the campus panhel and rho chi explains it correctly.

How hard is it to clearly explain the process and the eventual outcomes given the choice the PNM makes? If it is this much of a problem (and we only hear a small percentage of it, I'm sure), why isn't it dealt with on the national level?

I wonder why a system that gets so many errors is still used. Yes, perhaps after being through it a few times, people DO understand it -- but that lets out all rushees and most actives who are selecting members a few times in their careers.

Originally Posted by Titchou

This far down the road with RFM, that shouldn't be happening any longer. Everyone knows the rules and where to find them. I could see it back then though. And, since I'm old as dirt, I even remember the first of quota additions long before RFM. That was confusing to some at first. But 3-4 years later, it was not a problem. These days, unless it's a small campus that still does hand matching, there is no excuse for a PNM to not be given all the needed information. It's all right there to read. Whether they do it or not is an entirely different question.

Obviously, not everyone understands it, or counselors would not be giving out incorrect information. When it happens once or twice, it can be miscommunication; when it happens a dozen or more times on different campuses, it's a poorly understood system.

Originally Posted by TriDeltaSallie

Are we really recruiting "hormone-driven twits"? What does that say about sororities?

I'm serious. Do you really think those are the women we are recruiting? I would have been very offended to be referred to in that way and don't think of college women in that way.

Thank you!

[33girl]

Originally Posted by carnation

What. She. Said.

Plus for the past several years, I keep hearing of massive dropout rates in the new member classes on several competitive campuses. Many of us ascribe a lot of this to practically forcible maximizing.

It's not the forcible maximizing that is the problem. It's the tent talk, rumors and (in some cases) fraternity men and alumnae that make a woman think that unless she's part of the "Big Six" or "Core Four" her sorority life will completely suck. These problems have gotten 1000X worse with the internet.

As far as everyone who is offended by the hormone driven twits comment, I give you a quote from Elizabeth Wurtzel (who is 44) re her experience at Harvard: "Once I actually got there, once I found out that the air in Cambridge didn't tingle...once I realized that my classmates were not glamourous sophisticates but just a bunch of hormones on legs like teenagers throughout the country..." The point is, Titchou's advisee's quote is not a criticism of this particular generation. It is a very astute comment of what you're going through at that age. If you honestly don't remember ever being like that...I'm sorry but you were probably just a freak.

[carnation]

Originally Posted by 33girl

It's not the forcible maximizing that is the problem. It's the tent talk, rumors and (in some cases) fraternity men and alumnae that make a woman think that unless she's part of the "Big Six" or "Core Four" her sorority life will completely suck. These problems have gotten 1000X worse with the internet.

Sure, those are factors but in some chapters, we're talking about 10-40 dropouts. Almost every pre-initiation dropout that most of the locals know of feels like she was "jollied" into a chapter she wasn't sure she even wanted to return to, much less list on a pref card. And then they met other new members who said to them, "You too? I thought it was only me!" and by the time they come home the first time, they've dropped. They never felt like their chapters wanted them for themselves, only for the numbers.

Some of these girls could've made it in the chapters they left. Others never would have, they always would have been looking over their shoulder at their mom's chapter who dropped them, the chapter where so many from their high school pledged, the chapter they fell in love with that they thought loved them but cut them before prefs. Some will never be Greek again and others will polish up their resumes and GPAs and get to know more Greeks and because of upperclass quota, end up in one of the chapters they wanted.

It works for most of the chapters, though, because they take in new members who've been eagerly waiting on the COB list. They probably make better members than the women who left.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by carnation

Sure, those are factors but in some chapters, we're talking about 10-40 dropouts. Almost every pre-initiation dropout that most of the locals know of feels like she was "jollied" into a chapter she wasn't sure she even wanted to return to, much less list on a pref card. And then they met other new members who said to them, "You too? I thought it was only me!" and by the time they come home the first time, they've dropped. They never felt like their chapters wanted them for themselves, only for the numbers.

Some of these girls could've made it in the chapters they left. Others never would have, they always would have been looking over their shoulder at their mom's chapter who dropped them, the chapter where so many from their high school pledged, the chapter they fell in love with that they thought loved them but cut them before prefs. Some will never be Greek again and others will polish up their resumes and GPAs and get to know more Greeks and because of upperclass quota, end up in one of the chapters they wanted.

I'm sorry but this just seems like affirmation of exactly what I said. How do they know their chapters "only wanted them for the numbers"? Because of the tent talk that if ABC didn't get 125 girls in rush they would have to close. Why are they looking over their shoulder at their mom's chapter? Because their mom didn't think Panhellenically and spent the girl's whole childhood talking about not how great Greek life is, but how great XYZ life is. As for wanting to spend 4 more years up the asses of the people you went to high school with, who you probably will wake up someday and realize they were friends mainly out of proximity and necessity, that is something that I absolutely fail to understand.

Your life is what you choose to make of it. If you choose to throw away an opportunity that in some cases is your ONLY opportunity, and that might have helped you to grow a lot more than getting the "chapter you wanted" - sorry if I don't feel the least bit sorry for you.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by carnation

Sure, those are factors but in some chapters, we're talking about 10-40 dropouts. Almost every pre-initiation dropout that most of the locals know of feels like she was "jollied" into a chapter she wasn't sure she even wanted to return to, much less list on a pref card. And then they met other new members who said to them, "You too? I thought it was only me!" and by the time they come home the first time, they've dropped. They never felt like their chapters wanted them for themselves, only for the numbers.

Some of these girls could've made it in the chapters they left. Others never would have, they always would have been looking over their shoulder at their mom's chapter who dropped them, the chapter where so many from their high school pledged, the chapter they fell in love with that they thought loved them but cut them before prefs. Some will never be Greek again and others will polish up their resumes and GPAs and get to know more Greeks and because of upperclass quota, end up in one of the chapters they wanted.

It works for most of the chapters, though, because they take in new members who've been eagerly waiting on the COB list. They probably make better members than the women who left.

I don't want to hijack the thread, but I'm just wondering some things out loud:


When you're dealing with chapters of almost 200 women (at some of these bigger schools) is your experience really going to be THAT much different in XYZ vs. The Holy Grail Chapter that you were in love with?

Maybe that's something WE know as alumnae (that you can be happy in a chapter that wasn't your fave and can still have a comparable experience) with the benefit of a couple of years of hindsight. I guess at 18, you just don't have the life experiences to know that (added to it that you may have been told since junior high or HS that "everyone from my HS pledges ______" or that all the Anytown girls always pledge ______.")

[Titchou]

Here's the unvarnished truth. I would be willing to bet that every woman who withdraws from recruitment (other than those who have a family emergency or something like that arise) do so fundamentally because they believe they are too good for the choices they have left. Seriously. And those who are released are done so because 1) they have no or too few recs on a campus where they are required or 2) they don't meet the qualifications for membership.

Now, this may be an over the top example, but if the PNM was the "bff" of the whole football team her senior year in HS, I'm never writing a rec for her. 4 years of college just isn't far enough away from the activity to clear memories.

Now, how many of the 200 or so out of 1750 PNMs at Alabama who were released (not who dropped out) could fit into this sort of scenario but would never admit it? Just because woman signs up and pays her fee does not make her qualified for membership. And just because she is Susie Snowflake doesn't make her better than anyone else.

[carnation]

Originally Posted by 33girl

I'm sorry but this just seems like affirmation of exactly what I said. How do they know their chapters "only wanted them for the numbers"?

Do you remember a thread I started years ago because a GCer had pmed me asking for advice on how her chapter could seem less desperate for members and assure PNMs that they wanted then for themselves and not because they obviously needed numbers? A lot of GCers' chapters had been in those shoes and they offered great advice.

Just like some men and women reek of desperation when they're seeking a spouse, some chapters do too. You don't see it as much now because of RFM but it's obvious, and not always by their numbers because they may have brought in out of town sisters to help rush. These might be the chapters who invite back almost everyone every day--until a few years ago, it was obvious because you could cut chapters and you might cut Icky Iota daily but daily, that invitation would show up again.

Tent talk doesn't always cause the problems. It can be a multitude of factors and can be compounded if the national office has warned of sanctions of the chapter doesn't get a lot bigger but doesn't offer much help. I bet that some of the "old rush hands" here can relay a lot of things they've seen but some times the problems are internal and they snowball from there.

[AnchorAlumna]

Originally Posted by TriDeltaSallie

Are we really recruiting "hormone-driven twits"? What does that say about sororities?

I'm serious. Do you really think those are the women we are recruiting? I would have been very offended to be referred to in that way and don't think of college women in that way.

Anybody who's worked with teen-agers (or had one) can tell you that their brains are not fully operational between the ages of 12 and 20 - see this month's National Geographic for the scientific proof of this!!

[33girl]

Originally Posted by carnation

Do you remember a thread I started years ago because a GCer had pmed me asking for advice on how her chapter could seem less desperate for members and assure PNMs that they wanted then for themselves and not because they obviously needed numbers? A lot of GCers' chapters had been in those shoes and they offered great advice.

Just like some men and women reek of desperation when they're seeking a spouse, some chapters do too. You don't see it as much now because of RFM but it's obvious, and not always by their numbers because they may have brought in out of town sisters to help rush. These might be the chapters who invite back almost everyone every day--until a few years ago, it was obvious because you could cut chapters and you might cut Icky Iota daily but daily, that invitation would show up again.

Tent talk doesn't always cause the problems. It can be a multitude of factors and can be compounded if the national office has warned of sanctions of the chapter doesn't get a lot bigger but doesn't offer much help. I bet that some of the "old rush hands" here can relay a lot of things they've seen but some times the problems are internal and they snowball from there.

We're talking (when you say 40 women dropped) about a very competitive type of rush filled with overachievers who if they were at most schools across the country, would have every chapter falling over themselves to bid them. There's a difference between being numbers crunched and forced to take girls who are TRULY unsuitable and girls who are wearing last season's Lily. The girls who end up with their last choice at Bama etc are more likely in the second group - because the first group will be too intimidated to even give rush a whirl. (Unless, of course, they are the well-connected slut Titchou mentioned who thinks she can get away with it.)

If enough of these women who have obviously done great things so far in their lives would quit worrying about their mom's chapter, their HS friends' chapter, and what the fraternity boys say, they could stick together and make something great. Instead they drop out with their tails between their legs and accept what someone else told them. Congratulations, your whole life is going to be more of the same.

[carnation]

Originally Posted by 33girl

If enough of these women who have obviously done great things so far in their lives would quit worrying about their mom's chapter, their HS friends' chapter, and what the fraternity boys say, they could stick together and make something great. Instead they drop out with their tails between their legs and accept what someone else told them. Congratulations, your whole life is going to be more of the same.

Yeah, but we've discussed that for years on here and it's pretty much unheard of in the region. I've never heard of anyone suggesting to a bunch of disillusioned new members that they stick it out and make something great of the chapter and really, how can you do that without making it sound like the chapter currently sucks bigtime? And a lot of teens are not going to have any rescue fantasy that stars them as the wonderful women who steer the chapter to stardom. Most of the women who have the capability to do that are already in the sororities of their choice.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by carnation

Yeah, but we've discussed that for years on here and it's pretty much unheard of in the region.

Well then, that's the issue of the region. My big big and her pledge class came into a chapter that was only at 20% of total and resolved to get it to total by the time they graduated, and guess what? They did it. They refused to listen to crap from anyone and just did it. If you say big whoop small school, a chapter at a very competitive school that was (according to other posters) in the social cellar and under total was able to turn their situation around. As with most other things, the problems start when you don't believe in yourself and stop when you do.