Why doesn't NPC deal with the lack of info?

[carnation]

Originally Posted by 33girl

I'm sorry but this just seems like affirmation of exactly what I said. How do they know their chapters "only wanted them for the numbers"?

Do you remember a thread I started years ago because a GCer had pmed me asking for advice on how her chapter could seem less desperate for members and assure PNMs that they wanted then for themselves and not because they obviously needed numbers? A lot of GCers' chapters had been in those shoes and they offered great advice.

Just like some men and women reek of desperation when they're seeking a spouse, some chapters do too. You don't see it as much now because of RFM but it's obvious, and not always by their numbers because they may have brought in out of town sisters to help rush. These might be the chapters who invite back almost everyone every day--until a few years ago, it was obvious because you could cut chapters and you might cut Icky Iota daily but daily, that invitation would show up again.

Tent talk doesn't always cause the problems. It can be a multitude of factors and can be compounded if the national office has warned of sanctions of the chapter doesn't get a lot bigger but doesn't offer much help. I bet that some of the "old rush hands" here can relay a lot of things they've seen but some times the problems are internal and they snowball from there.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by carnation

Do you remember a thread I started years ago because a GCer had pmed me asking for advice on how her chapter could seem less desperate for members and assure PNMs that they wanted then for themselves and not because they obviously needed numbers? A lot of GCers' chapters had been in those shoes and they offered great advice.

Just like some men and women reek of desperation when they're seeking a spouse, some chapters do too. You don't see it as much now because of RFM but it's obvious, and not always by their numbers because they may have brought in out of town sisters to help rush. These might be the chapters who invite back almost everyone every day--until a few years ago, it was obvious because you could cut chapters and you might cut Icky Iota daily but daily, that invitation would show up again.

Tent talk doesn't always cause the problems. It can be a multitude of factors and can be compounded if the national office has warned of sanctions of the chapter doesn't get a lot bigger but doesn't offer much help. I bet that some of the "old rush hands" here can relay a lot of things they've seen but some times the problems are internal and they snowball from there.

We're talking (when you say 40 women dropped) about a very competitive type of rush filled with overachievers who if they were at most schools across the country, would have every chapter falling over themselves to bid them. There's a difference between being numbers crunched and forced to take girls who are TRULY unsuitable and girls who are wearing last season's Lily. The girls who end up with their last choice at Bama etc are more likely in the second group - because the first group will be too intimidated to even give rush a whirl. (Unless, of course, they are the well-connected slut Titchou mentioned who thinks she can get away with it.)

If enough of these women who have obviously done great things so far in their lives would quit worrying about their mom's chapter, their HS friends' chapter, and what the fraternity boys say, they could stick together and make something great. Instead they drop out with their tails between their legs and accept what someone else told them. Congratulations, your whole life is going to be more of the same.

[carnation]

Originally Posted by 33girl

If enough of these women who have obviously done great things so far in their lives would quit worrying about their mom's chapter, their HS friends' chapter, and what the fraternity boys say, they could stick together and make something great. Instead they drop out with their tails between their legs and accept what someone else told them. Congratulations, your whole life is going to be more of the same.

Yeah, but we've discussed that for years on here and it's pretty much unheard of in the region. I've never heard of anyone suggesting to a bunch of disillusioned new members that they stick it out and make something great of the chapter and really, how can you do that without making it sound like the chapter currently sucks bigtime? And a lot of teens are not going to have any rescue fantasy that stars them as the wonderful women who steer the chapter to stardom. Most of the women who have the capability to do that are already in the sororities of their choice.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by carnation

Yeah, but we've discussed that for years on here and it's pretty much unheard of in the region.

Well then, that's the issue of the region. My big big and her pledge class came into a chapter that was only at 20% of total and resolved to get it to total by the time they graduated, and guess what? They did it. They refused to listen to crap from anyone and just did it. If you say big whoop small school, a chapter at a very competitive school that was (according to other posters) in the social cellar and under total was able to turn their situation around. As with most other things, the problems start when you don't believe in yourself and stop when you do.

[carnation]

But how do you announce, "We're turning this chapter around and saving it'" without insulting the women in it, both longtime and new members? I think that hearing that announcement would lose at least half your new members, who might have been entertaining the thought of leaving because they never wanted to be part of a group that needed saving.

(Although I definitely think that what saved a lot of chapters around the area is RFM and not heroics.)

[violetpretty]

Originally Posted by carnation

But how do you announce, "We're turning this chapter around and saving it'" without insulting the women in it, both longtime and new members? I think that hearing that announcement would lose at least half your new members, who might have been entertaining the thought of leaving because they never wanted to be part of a group that needed saving.

(Although I definitely think that what saved a lot of chapters around the area is RFM and not heroics.)

If a chapter truly needs saving numbers wise, I think everyone in the chapter (via pressure from National) AND the new members will be aware of it (tent talk, visibly fewer actives at recruitment parties). Such an attitude would insult a bottom tier chapter who is at or very close to total but does fine otherwise.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by carnation

Do you remember a thread I started years ago because a GCer had pmed me asking for advice on how her chapter could seem less desperate for members and assure PNMs that they wanted then for themselves and not because they obviously needed numbers? A lot of GCers' chapters had been in those shoes and they offered great advice.

Just like some men and women reek of desperation when they're seeking a spouse, some chapters do too. You don't see it as much now because of RFM but it's obvious, and not always by their numbers because they may have brought in out of town sisters to help rush. These might be the chapters who invite back almost everyone every day--until a few years ago, it was obvious because you could cut chapters and you might cut Icky Iota daily but daily, that invitation would show up again.

Tent talk doesn't always cause the problems. It can be a multitude of factors and can be compounded if the national office has warned of sanctions of the chapter doesn't get a lot bigger but doesn't offer much help. I bet that some of the "old rush hands" here can relay a lot of things they've seen but some times the problems are internal and they snowball from there.

Sidenote: are people still doing the "bring out of town chapters to help with recruitment" thing? Do HQs and advisors still suggest that it be done?

That's something our HQ discourages. From a volunteer standpoint, I would NEVER advise a chapter to do that. In my opinion, it's more hurtful than helpful to a chapter and is a red flag of struggle even moreso than the obviously small numbers.

Also, I think the "turnaround" potential of a chapter also has to do with the campus culture. At many schools, chapters can change drastically for the better or worse every year or so depending on the NM classes. Things are more fluid (ex: the perceived top group when I was in undergrad is not considered that now.) At some of the bigger more competitive schools, whether XYZ is at total, winning awards, tc. they're still going to be Icky XYZ just because that's what they've always been known as and it's pretty set in stone.

I do agree about the RFM improving things on some level. For example, a chapter at an SEC school may have been on the brink of closing due to low numbers but was given the opportunity to bounce back by the RFM. Which is good.

Another sidenote: I volunteer with chapters who have traditionally not hit quota, yet think every year that the RFM will magically bring them numbers. They end up disappointed year after year because they don't fully understand that the RFM can calculate and help you get better numbers, but it can't MAKE PNMs want to accept your invite. That part is up to YOU.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

Sidenote: are people still doing the "bring out of town chapters to help with recruitment" thing? Do HQs and advisors still suggest that it be done?

That's something our HQ discourages. From a volunteer standpoint, I would NEVER advise a chapter to do that. In my opinion, it's more hurtful than helpful to a chapter and is a red flag of struggle even moreso than the obviously small numbers.

I think it depends on the chapter and what the out-of-towners were there to do. For a few rushes, a neighboring chapter came to help us out with Recruitment--but they didn't have any interaction with rushees. Our chapter was small, typical for the University, and our advisors felt that we should all be rushing and not behind-the-scenes. If you had a chapter of 20 women, and 20 rushees, it probably wasn't a good idea to have 5 of those women doing something else. If a chapter is doing it to deceive rushees, then yes--it could hurt the chapter.

I'm pretty sure the other chapters on our campus did the same thing. It wasn't a way to deceive rushees; it was just a way to make rush a little easier for us.