The Confederate Flag

[Low C Sharp]

A flag is a piece of communication. If it's not communicating the message that you want it to, the problem isn't the fact that audience misunderstood, it's that you have chosen the wrong symbol to communicate.

That's right. If I speak some foreign language where the phrase "White Supremacy" means "Love and rainbows," and I put a "White Supremacy" sign in front of my house in an English-speaking country, I have nothing to complain about when people think I'm advocating racial hatred. But that's not what I meant! To me, it means love and rainbows! Well, so what? My neighbors speak English, they can read the sign, and those words mean something to them. If I don't want people to think I'm a white supremacist, I shouldn't say so in their local language. "White Supremacy" can still have a totally different meaning to me in my own home.

The fact is, a lot of people in this country, for very good reason, see words on that flag along the lines of "White Supremacy" or even "Die N***** Die." That's because it has been used to communicate those messages to tremendous effect for decades. If that's not the message you want to express, just use a different Confederate flag.

Do people in the North honestly believe that when people in the South fly the rebel flag, they're doing so because they're racist/pleased with the results of slavery/trying to reverse the outcome of the Civil War? Honest question.

Honest answer: I believe that those who are not racist are either: 1. ignorant of the Southern history they supposedly honor, or 2. they know that the flag was used to terrorize fellow Americans, but they choose not to think about whether that part of its history has any relevance today.

Here's my honest question: is there any non-racist message that this flag expresses that cannot be expressed using a different Confederate flag? Why don't people use the other ones instead?

[thetaj]

Originally Posted by Low C Sharp

Here's my honest question: is there any non-racist message that this flag expresses that cannot be expressed using a different Confederate flag? Why don't people use the other ones instead?

Truth of the matter is that a lot of the rednecks out there are actually really humble, gentle people. I have a lot of rednecks in my family lol. But yeah, there are other ways to express Southern pride; I have the flag of the state of Florida up in my room. I bought it when I moved to Virginia and missed the real south lol. But say I grew up in Alabama and bought their state flag to hang in my dorm. That might almost be just as bad lol. Someone might be offended that I'm proud to be from Alabama. Idk.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by thetaj

Truth of the matter is that a lot of the rednecks out there are actually really humble, gentle people. I have a lot of rednecks in my family lol. But yeah, there are other ways to express Southern pride; I have the flag of the state of Florida up in my room. I bought it when I moved to Virginia and missed the real south lol. But say I grew up in Alabama and bought their state flag to hang in my dorm. That might almost be just as bad lol. Someone might be offended that I'm proud to be from Alabama. Idk.

LOL, I have NEVER heard Florida called "the real south."

[amIblue?]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

LOL, I have NEVER heard Florida called "the real south."

I was thinking the same thing!

[thetaj]

Originally Posted by amIblue?

I was thinking the same thing!

I'm from northern Florida. Trust me, it's the real south. Southern Florida.... ugh don't get me started

[BluPhire]

Originally Posted by thetaj

I'm from northern Florida. Trust me, it's the real south. Southern Florida.... ugh don't get me started

Yep, Northern to parts of Central Florida is very South.

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by Low C Sharp

The whole Civil War thing is a red herring. The problem with the battle flag has little to do with the Confederacy. The battle flag was adopted as a symbol of racial intimidation by the Klan and its sympathizers in the twentieth century. It was successfully used to place millions of Americans in a state of terror in their own homes. You can't erase that history from that flag. It's ruined. It's poisoned. Pick a different Confederate symbol to fly -- there are lots to choose from that never flew at lynchings and segregationist rallies.

Absolutely. The meaning has changed to such an extent that, as you say, the flag itself is ruined. Regardless of what white people say, it is no longer simply a symbol of southern heritage. It is a symbol of power, privilege and modern-day rebellion.

Originally Posted by KDCat

A flag is a piece of communication. If it's not communicating the message that you want it to, the problem isn't the fact that audience misunderstood, it's that you have chosen the wrong symbol to communicate.

In this case, it is effectively communicating exactly what the flag owners intend, no matter how fervently they try to redirect attention.

The question is why fly the flag? You have to go deeper than the initial responses...southern heritage, pride, connection to ancestors...

Why fly the flag when they know it has lost its original symbolism? Because they can.

Dig deeper...why do they feel they can do something so blatantly offensive and not be bothered by it? The answer to this question is the bottom line.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

LOL, I have NEVER heard Florida called "the real south."

I take it you've never been to the Florida Panhandle.

I'm actually pretty desensitized to that specific Confederate flag. That doesn't mean I like to see it, but I don't get all up in arms when I do. Fortunately, I don't see it that often in my neck of the woods.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

I'm actually pretty desensitized to that specific Confederate flag. That doesn't mean I like to see it, but I don't get all up in arms when I do.

Ditto.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

I take it you've never been to the Florida Panhandle.

I'm actually pretty desensitized to that specific Confederate flag. That doesn't mean I like to see it, but I don't get all up in arms when I do. Fortunately, I don't see it that often in my neck of the woods.

Yeah, I have, but if you ask anyone in the South, they'll all say Florida is in the South, but it's not southern.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Yeah, I have, but if you ask anyone in the South, they'll all say Florida is in the South, but it's not southern.

I'd say that's true for anything south of Orlando--but an area of the country called "Lower Alabama" is probably pretty Southern.

[thetaj]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Yeah, I have, but if you ask anyone in the South, they'll all say Florida is in the South, but it's not southern.

Oh parts of it are plenty southern, and I think a lot of the south knows that so idk who you're asking. At least everyone in southern Georgia/Alabama knows it

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by thetaj

Oh parts of it are plenty southern, and I think a lot of the south knows that so idk who you're asking. At least everyone in southern Georgia/Alabama knows it

Probably the fact that you have to put the caveat that parts of the state are southern is why people don't consider it southern. It's a pretty wide spread thought outside Florida, apparently. The discussion even made it on a nationally televised series called, "You Don't Know Dixie" on the History Channel http://www.history.com/shows/you-don.../episode-guide that discussed everything from which states are southern to what a "southern" accent is. If you haven't heard this before, you haven't been far out of Florida.

[honeychile]

Sign that you spend much too much time on GC: coming home from work, I saw a bumper sticker that had the battle flag on it with "Heritage, not Hate". I immediately realized that I had to share it with y'all!