The Confederate Flag

[TonyB06]

/slight twist.

I "get" the argument that the flag can mean different things to those flying it, heritage, cultural pride, etc..

Does that same reasoning attach if you see someone burning and American flag? Can they be burning it for reasons other than hatred of America? Is there any "acceptable reason" you can grasp, even if you don't agree, in your mind that would make you at least tolerant?

I suppose "burning" it rather than flying it would make some consider it a more overt political statement, but isn't flying a flag a political statement, of some sort, in the first place?


/end of twist

[amIblue?]

Originally Posted by TonyB06

/slight twist.

I "get" the argument that the flag can mean different things to those flying it, heritage, cultural pride, etc..

Does that same reasoning attach if you see someone burning and American flag? Can they be burning it for reasons other than hatred of America? Is there any "acceptable reason" you can grasp, even if you don't agree, in your mind that would make you at least tolerant?

I suppose "burning" it rather than flying it would make some consider it a more overt political statement, but isn't flying a flag a political statement, of some sort, in the first place?


/end of twist

From back in my Girl Scout days, I do seem to recall that burning is the acceptable way to dispose of a damaged US flag, but that was a long time ago. Of course, that probably wouldn't be done right out in the open for everybody and his/her brother to see, so not comparable.

[TonyB06]

Originally Posted by amIblue?

From back in my Girl Scout days, I do seem to recall that burning is the acceptable way to dispose of a damaged US flag, but that was a long time ago. Of course, that probably wouldn't be done right out in the open for everybody and his/her brother to see, so not comparable.

No, I didn't mean in in the proper disposal way. I meant it in the "hightest rank of pissitivity" way that we most often see it in news coverage. Do those who allow great latitude for "other reasons" to rep the CF flag, similarly allow that there may be other reasons for those who light up the U.S. flag.

[PincGator Que]

Originally Posted by thetaj

Truth of the matter is that a lot of the rednecks out there are actually really humble, gentle people. .

To their own people, they are.

Originally Posted by SydneyK

I'm just saying that there are non-racists who display the Confederate Flag.

You're an idiot.

What kills me about white people are ignorant ass comments like these... always quick to tell somebody else how to feel about something degrading that has never had any affect on them. There's no way in hell I'm going to sit here and let somebody tell me some shit like I just read here.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by PincGator Que

You're an idiot.

What kills me about white people are ignorant ass comments like these... always quick to tell somebody else how to feel about something degrading that has never had any affect on them. There's no way in hell I'm going to sit here and let somebody tell me some shit like I just read here.

Shut the hell up. Seriously.

[PincGator Que]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Shut the hell up. Seriously.

Make me shut up..."seriously".

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by PincGator Que

Make me shut up..."seriously".

I did.

This is one of the only threads in the years of GC that has discussed a whole lot of dynamics without becoming a fun "(insert group) war." People have done pretty well with disagreeing without going off on each other even when expressions of opinions became testy. I will let you know when we're resorting back to calling people idiots and stuff. That's also fun. See you then.

[AGD1978]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Shut the hell up. Seriously.

Thanks, Dr. Phil.

I was just going to post about how well PreciousJen's last few sentences summed up what I think is a cause of so many of our problems:

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

Dig deeper...why do they feel they can do something so blatantly offensive and not be bothered by it? The answer to this question is the bottom line.

And then PincGator Que weighed in with his hate. Blew me away. I've learned a lot from this thread. Enjoyed the open discussion and the heretofore solid, well-considered exchange of knowledge and opinions.

[*winter*]

Originally Posted by PincGator Que

To their own people, they are.

And...since you've met...ALL OF THEM, I guess you are qualified to make that kind of a statement.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by *winter*

And...since you've met...ALL OF THEM, I guess you are qualified to make that kind of a statement.

He does not need to meet all poor whites/poor white farmers to make that statement. Don't take that statement too seriously and assume that it has to apply 100%. He may be talking about the stereotype of rednecks as aggressive and mean and overall ignorant based on bigotry. I disagree with that stereotype but I also do not care whether people are polite to each other. Politeness is not the crux of racism and discrimination.

Poor white farmers (what the derogatory slang "redneck" is based on because the necks were red from working in the land and in the sun) did not have the same role in slavery as the more well off whites. However, slavery and racism would not have/would not persist without poor whites. Poor whites have white privilege which buffers much of the impact of social class inequalities. Poor whites were also instrumental in social exclusion and job discrimination for generations. When the more well-off whites/capitalists needed someone to maintain the class and race hierarchies, poor whites were and still are a vital tool.

Anti-capitalists/economists/conflict theorists who believed that the working class would unite against the capitalists found that poor whites (in general) always preferred racial alliances over social class alliances. Poor whites believed that they were protecting their jobs from "those people" and protecting their own white privileges. That is how political parties, labor unions, etc. were able to develop on the basis of the extremely high correlation between race and social class.

/I love threads with a whole lot of subtopics that are based in the same dynamics

[*winter*]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

He does not need to meet all poor whites/poor white farmers to make that statement. Don't take that statement too seriously and assume that it has to apply 100%. He may be talking about the stereotype of rednecks as aggressive and mean and overall ignorant based on bigotry. I disagree with that stereotype but I also do not care whether people are polite to each other. Politeness is not the crux of racism and discrimination.

Poor white farmers (what the derogatory slang "redneck" is based on because the necks were red from working in the land and in the sun) did not have the same role in slavery as the more well off whites. However, slavery and racism would not have/would not persist without poor whites. Poor whites have white privilege which buffers much of the impact of social class inequalities. Poor whites were also instrumental in social exclusion and job discrimination for generations. When the more well-off whites/capitalists needed someone to maintain the class and race hierarchies, poor whites were and still are a vital tool.

Anti-capitalists/economists/conflict theorists who believed that the working class would unite against the capitalists found that poor whites (in general) always preferred racial alliances over social class alliances. Poor whites believed that they were protecting their jobs from "those people" and protecting their own white privileges. That is how political parties, labor unions, etc. were able to develop on the basis of the extremely high correlation between race and social class.

/I love threads with a whole lot of subtopics that are based in the same dynamics

I just wrote this really long response based on our local history here...but apparently the cord came out (yeah, I'm old school like that) and I got knocked offline, so it has now disappeared into cyberspace. Guess I'll try again tomorrow (after I get a wireless router, LOL!)

[VandalSquirrel]

Yesterday on the back window of a truck outside a Target in Washington was a giant, more than a meter wide "Confederate Flag" decal with the text "Bad Ass Girls Drive Bad Ass Toys" above and below it.

Washington didn't even gain statehood until more than 30 years after the end of the Civil War, so it looks even more out of place.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by *winter*

I just wrote this really long response based on our local history here...but apparently the cord came out (yeah, I'm old school like that) and I got knocked offline, so it has now disappeared into cyberspace. Guess I'll try again tomorrow (after I get a wireless router, LOL!)