The Confederate Flag

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by thetaj

I haven't spoken to anyone about this specifically, but I feel like if they took offense to it, something would at least be said about that. And I have never in my life heard of there being an issue with the flag being flown locally. Kids at my high school would fly them behind their pick-up trucks and the black students didn't seem to mind, they were friends.

Correct. Our last "Black People Meeting" didn't address how all Black people should feel about and respond to images of the Confederacy. Yet, there is a general understanding of what the Confederacy symbolizes to the average person of the African Diaspora (not just Black Americans), agree or disagree.

Two things have always and will always be the case: "some of my bestfriends are Black" and "the Black people I know don't seem to mind" have been cliche' for generations. One thing to remember is that with the structure of segregation and social exclusion across the country (including the north), the average person remains more likely to express discontent over something with those within their racial and ethnic group. Why? For one, it tends to require much less explanation to those who don't understand and don't get it. There are instances where people will share heartfelt opinions and issues to people outside of their racial and ethnic group. But, that is a very careful process because even the best interracial friendships can be made uncomfortable by such discussions. That is why you will hear people (predominantly white people) say things like "I don't see you as Black, you're just Lauren" or "we come together and don't see race." Therefore, many racial and ethnic minorities who have some sense of the larger implications of many things will nod their heads, take mental notes, and save the in depth discussion for nonwhites.

If I had a dollar for everytime a white person said or did something that I considered racially offensive, rooted in privilege and power dynamics, and/or displayed racialized symbols that can be interpreted in different ways. If I had a dollar for everytime I had to ignore these things as to not lose a professional opportunity, be branded as the "angry Black woman," or have the police knocking at my door.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Correct. Our last "Black People Meeting" didn't address how all Black people should feel about and respond to images of the Confederacy.

They brought it up right after lunch.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

They brought it up right after lunch.

I can never trust YOU PEOPLE to take good minutes.

*throwing a fried chitterling at the screen*

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

I can never trust YOU PEOPLE to take good minutes.

*throwing a fried chitterling at the screen*

iDied at the image of a lone chitlin (not spelling it correctly, since I take bad minutes) hitting my computer screen lol

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Correct. Our last "Black People Meeting" didn't address how all Black people should feel about and respond to images of the Confederacy. Yet, there is a general understanding of what the Confederacy symbolizes to the average person of the African Diaspora (not just Black Americans), agree or disagree.

Two things have always and will always be the case: "some of my bestfriends are Black" and "the Black people I know don't seem to mind" have been cliche' for generations. One thing to remember is that with the structure of segregation and social exclusion across the country (including the north), the average person remains more likely to express discontent over something with those within their racial and ethnic group. Why? For one, it tends to require much less explanation to those who don't understand and don't get it. There are instances where people will share heartfelt opinions and issues to people outside of their racial and ethnic group. But, that is a very careful process because even the best interracial friendships can be made uncomfortable by such discussions. That is why you will hear people (predominantly white people) say things like "I don't see you as Black, you're just Lauren" or "we come together and don't see race." Therefore, many racial and ethnic minorities who have some sense of the larger implications of many things will nod their heads, take mental notes, and save the in depth discussion for nonwhites.

If I had a dollar for everytime a white person said or did something that I considered racially offensive, rooted in privilege and power dynamics, and/or displayed racialized symbols that can be interpreted in different ways. If I had a dollar for everytime I had to ignore these things as to not lose a professional opportunity, be branded as the "angry Black woman," or have the police knocking at my door.

Understandable. But like I can say, "In the North, we generally feel this way because of this, that and the other thing," I thought someone might be able to answer my question for me. But I can see how the two are different for the reasons you've stated.

However, if minorities as a whole felt a certain way and spoke openly about something they were against, it's not exactly like it would be a new concept. I just didn't know if that was the case. Again, part of my lack of Southern knowledge

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

Understandable. But like I can say, "In the North, we generally feel this way because of this, that and the other thing," I thought someone might be able to answer my question for me. But I can see how the two are different for the reasons you've stated.

Read my very first paragraph again.

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

However, if minorities as a whole felt a certain way and spoke openly about something they were against, it's not exactly like it would be a new concept. I just didn't know if that was the case. Again, part of my lack of Southern knowledge

I do not know what this paragraph means.

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

I do not know what this paragraph means.

In other words, if there was any kind of "outrage" in the South over the flag being flown, I wouldn't know... hence why the question was asked.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

In other words, if there was any kind of "outrage" over the flag being flown, I wouldn't know... hence why the question was asked.

Are we in the same thread? LOL. What do you think this thread is about?

I hope you all now see why people like MysticCat get tired of explaining stuff on either side(s) of the issue. LOL.

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Are we in the same thread? LOL. What do you think this thread is about?

I hope you all now see why people like MysticCat get tired of explaining stuff on either side(s) of the issue. LOL.

I just don't get it.

[honeychile]

This is why I mentioned not causing your neighbor to sin. My one neighbor flies an Italian flag, and what gets to me is that it's flown higher than the American flag.

I would not fly a Confederate flag, out of respect for those who would be offended. The pride I have in my heritage is how I live, not what I fly.

Don't even get me started about the flags I've seen in Chicago!

[agzg]

Originally Posted by honeychile

Don't even get me started about the flags I've seen in Chicago!

Exsqueeze me? Our flags are just fine, thankyouverymuch.

You're just jealous you don't have a super awesome city flag that everyone recognizes and wears on t-shirts, back packs, and faces.



ETA: This picture might be better - there are three white stripes.

[Ch2tf]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

The relative few white people who do live in historically and predominantly Black neighborhoods have their Black Card Cliff Notes and have a general idea what to do and what not to do.

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Correct. Our last "Black People Meeting" didn't address how all Black people should feel about and respond to images of the Confederacy. Yet, there is a general understanding of what the Confederacy symbolizes to the average person of the African Diaspora (not just Black Americans), agree or disagree.

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

They brought it up right after lunch.

I'm so happy I wasn't eating my breakfast in front of the computer when I read these because it would be all over the screen and keyboard.

Originally Posted by DrPhil

If I had a dollar for everytime a white person said or did something that I considered racially offensive, rooted in privilege and power dynamics, and/or displayed racialized symbols that can be interpreted in different ways. If I had a dollar for everytime I had to ignore these things as to not lose a professional opportunity, be branded as the "angry Black woman," or have the police knocking at my door.

I might not be rich, but I'd definitely have a WHOLE lot more money than I do now.

ETA: And I'd be able to afford to pay someone to train K_S how to take proper minutes.

[rhoyaltempest]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Correct. Our last "Black People Meeting" didn't address how all Black people should feel about and respond to images of the Confederacy. Yet, there is a general understanding of what the Confederacy symbolizes to the average person of the African Diaspora (not just Black Americans), agree or disagree.

Two things have always and will always be the case: "some of my bestfriends are Black" and "the Black people I know don't seem to mind" have been cliche' for generations. One thing to remember is that with the structure of segregation and social exclusion across the country (including the north), the average person remains more likely to express discontent over something with those within their racial and ethnic group. Why? For one, it tends to require much less explanation to those who don't understand and don't get it. There are instances where people will share heartfelt opinions and issues to people outside of their racial and ethnic group. But, that is a very careful process because even the best interracial friendships can be made uncomfortable by such discussions. That is why you will hear people (predominantly white people) say things like "I don't see you as Black, you're just Lauren" or "we come together and don't see race." Therefore, many racial and ethnic minorities who have some sense of the larger implications of many things will nod their heads, take mental notes, and save the in depth discussion for nonwhites.

If I had a dollar for everytime a white person said or did something that I considered racially offensive, rooted in privilege and power dynamics, and/or displayed racialized symbols that can be interpreted in different ways. If I had a dollar for everytime I had to ignore these things as to not lose a professional opportunity, be branded as the "angry Black woman," or have the police knocking at my door.

Lol at the "Black People Meeting." I totally agree with this but also I've always thought that most Black Southerners (born and bred, especially older folks) express less opposition (at least publicly) to certain things because they are so used to certain things as the norm and also at least some are still stuck in a "stay in your place" mentality where they know not to rock the boat or rock it too much for fear of consequence. Although I'm from the North, I have family still in the South and when hearing about present day stories/incidents from them and asking them why is this? why is that? the answers are usually very sort of on the "that's just the way it is" level, but not that it's okay. Of course, the conversation usually ends with me saying something like..."I wouldn't live there if I had to put up with that!" So the bottom line is, I think that when you're used to certain things and have accepted them as the norm because you feel there is nothing you can do to change it (and it's been a certain way for years and years and you've decided to pick your battles carefully), you might have a less aggressive reaction to something (at least publicly) as opposed to those that aren't used to it at all. Hence the reason why some/many Black Northerners tend to have a much stronger reaction to some things such as some Blacks in the South still accepting the word "colored." A colleague of mine called me "colored" one day and I had to teach her an up North lesson. She is from the South but I still say she should've known better since she's lived up here for so long. She said that she and her family always talk like that but are not racist. It goes back to some Southerners (and others) being just plain insensitive. Just because your neighbors don't say anything, it doesn't mean they are okay with things.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by rhoyaltempest

Lol at the "Black People Meeting." I totally agree with this but also I've always thought that most Black Southerners (born and bred, especially older folks) express less opposition (at least publicly) to certain things because they are so used to certain things as the norm and also at least some are still stuck in a "stay in your place" mentality where they know not to rock the boat or rock it too much for fear of consequence. Although I'm from the North, I have family still in the South and when hearing about present day stories/incidents from them and asking them why is this? why is that? the answers are usually very sort of on the "that's just the way it is" level, but not that it's okay. Of course, the conversation usually ends with me saying something like..."I wouldn't live there if I had to put up with that!" So the bottom line is, I think that when you're used to certain things and have accepted them as the norm because you feel there is nothing you can do to change it (and it's been a certain way for years and years and you've decided to pick your battles carefully), you might have a less aggressive reaction to something (at least publicly) as opposed to those that aren't used to it at all. Hence the reason why some/many Black Northerners tend to have a much stronger reaction to some things such as some Blacks in the South still accepting the word "colored." A colleague of mine called me "colored" one day and I had to teach her an up North lesson. She is from the South but I still say she should've known better since she's lived up here for so long. She said that she and her family always talk like that but are not racist. It goes back to some Southerners (and others) being just plain insensitive. Just because your neighbors don't say anything, it doesn't mean they are okay with things.

Yes. "This is how things have always been" often means "I will let these people act how they act and just discuss this later with my friends and family."

I too would correct a nonBlack person who called me "colored." There are other comments and behaviors that are worth ignoring as to not drive myself crazy.

[SydneyK]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

... the average person remains more likely to express discontent over something with those within their racial and ethnic group.

I agree.

Originally Posted by DrPhil

...Therefore, many racial and ethnic minorities who have some sense of the larger implications of many things will nod their heads, take mental notes, and save the in depth discussion for nonwhites.

I think the same is probably true of white folks. Which, if true across the ethnic/racial board, makes me wonder whether there is any hope for true nondiscrimination**. If racial and ethnic minorities are taking the difficult discussions to those within their group, and white people are taking the difficult discussions to those within their group, the likelihood of true desegregation** seems extremely low (if attainable at all). If each group is doing this, what goal can we accomplish (and, for that matter, what goal are we trying to accomplish)?

**I wish I could find better terms here. I'm talking about real feelings of inclusion/peace/understanding, and not PC/legal constructs.