Obama's Birth Certificate Released

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

This couldn't be brought up enough. I believe the vitriol and general nastiness that we saw during the GWB's administration just carried over to Obama's. I don't know if it's "payback" from Republicans for the 8 years of crap they had to deal with or maybe our society crossed a line and there's no going back to politely disagreeing on things.

The vitriol goes back at least to the Clintons, and there were signs of it even when Reagan was in the White House.

On this topic, I highly recommend Peggy Noonan's Patriotic Grace: What It Is and Why We Need It Now.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

The vitriol goes back at least to the Clintons, and there were signs of it even when Reagan was in the White House.

On this topic, I highly recommend Peggy Noonan's Patriotic Grace: What It Is and Why We Need It Now.

It was definitely there for the Clinton. Hell, it was there for the Kennedys. People like to remember him well because of the assassination, but there were many people who couldn't stand JFK. My father's family (who are incidentally Catholic) still talk about how they didn't like JFK and what a terrible president he was.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

It was definitely there for the Clinton. Hell, it was there for the Kennedys. People like to remember him well because of the assassination, but there were many people who couldn't stand JFK. My father's family (who are incidentally Catholic) still talk about how they didn't like JFK and what a terrible president he was.

Well, it's always been there to a greater or lesser degree. We've gone in waves of greater civility and lesser civility. Greater civility doesn't mean everyone loves the president, but it means disagreement is expressed, publically at least, in a civil and respectful way. And it means there is at least a tacit acknowledgement that just because someone disagrees with "us" doesn't mean they're unpatriotic or evil. Greater civility at least tries to start with the assumption that everyone has the nation's best interests at heart, they just disagree about what the nation's best interests are or how to achieve them.

I don't think there's any question that we've been stuck in the trench of a wave of lesser civility since Clinton at least.

[BluPhire]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

I don't think there's any question that we've been stuck in the trench of a wave of lesser civility since Clinton at least.

Hmm things that happened during the Clinton years.

Rise in Conservative Radio, the Internet.

I think, and especially watching old documentaries about previous Presidents, it isn't that we are less civil, its the fact that the access is everywhere. Anybody can create a blog and ruin a person's career (Breitbart and the Sherrod incident)

This is the Wild West. Nothing is filtered, and when nothing is filtered you get the bitter with the sweet.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by BluPhire

Hmm things that happened during the Clinton years.

Rise in Conservative Radio, the Internet.

I think, and especially watching old documentaries about previous Presidents, it isn't that we are less civil, its the fact that the access is everywhere. Anybody can create a blog and ruin a person's career (Breitbart and the Sherrod incident)

This is the Wild West. Nothing is filtered, and when nothing is filtered you get the bitter with the sweet.

This is all very true, but I still think there is more to it than just this. When you have a member of Congress yell "You lie!" during a State of the Union Address, it's not just the random bitter guy who can start a blog.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

It was definitely there for the Clinton. Hell, it was there for the Kennedys. People like to remember him well because of the assassination, but there were many people who couldn't stand JFK. My father's family (who are incidentally Catholic) still talk about how they didn't like JFK and what a terrible president he was.

Between the he's going to be consulting the Pope on every decision because he's Catholic factor and the Many Sins Of Papa Joe factor (bootlegger, thought Hitler was harmless, cheated on Rose and banged Gloria Swanson, lobotomized his daughter, allegedly bought the election) people freaking HATED JFK and I would say it's very close to what Obama is going through now. It's well documented that while he was alive, only something like 30% of people said they voted for him - after he died, 70% said they did. (Or numbers roughly to that effect) If he hadn't died, it's nowhere near sure he would have gotten a second term or been well thought of in the least.

JFK just didn't have to put up with 500 TV channels and other media outlets.