Appropriate Sanctions for Recruitment Infractions

[AlphaFrog]

Why all the legalistic threads all of a sudden (not just this OP)? It's not even rush season.

ETA: I guess it is about the time when all the new, idealistic rush chairs start planning fall rush.

[katydidKD]

Originally Posted by 33girl

This is the way I've interpreted it - that since formal recruitment is a function coordinated and sponsored by Panhellenic, yes you can. Whole chapters have been barred from participating in formal recruitment. However, that isn't the same thing as not being able to recruit at all or take members. It's usually in Panhel's interest not to play this card, as if you bar ABC from formal they are still allowed to informally rush in whatever manner their nationals deem fit. In other words, if they want to take girls to Morton's for steak and then shopping at Coach for a rush party, they can. They don't have to play by the rules of formal rush at ALL.

Pretty much you don't want to open up the wild wild west, because people will go there.

Excuse my ignorance, but is the rule "no gifts" not an NPC/informal/COB rule? We don't really have COB on my campus

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by katydidKD

Excuse my ignorance, but is the rule "no gifts" not an NPC/informal/COB rule? We don't really have COB on my campus

I think you're asking if chapters can give away gifts during COB. The answer is "no".

From the MOI:

All Styles [of recruitment]: No favors or gifts may be given to women by the fraternity and/or individual members.

However, it's less clear that something like taking PNM's to a $300 spa day would be against the rules, and I think that's 33girl's point.

[SydneyK]

I've known of chapters to simply accept that they'll have rush infractions, and build the anticipated fines into their budgets. I wonder if, instead of the fine being paid to campus Panhellenic, the fine was divided among all non-dirty-rushing chapters and paid to them at the end of recruitment. You reckon that would reduce the amount of planned infractions? (Not saying it's allowed, just wondering.)

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by SydneyK

I've known of chapters to simply accept that they'll have rush infractions, and build the anticipated fines into their budgets. I wonder if, instead of the fine being paid to campus Panhellenic, the fine was divided among all non-dirty-rushing chapters and paid to them at the end of recruitment. You reckon that would reduce the amount of planned infractions? (Not saying it's allowed, just wondering.)

That sure would sting.

[MaggieXi]

On the campus I advise on, the universities own the housing and select the groups that have housing and who gets what house (some houses are nicer than others). One of the deterrents to dirty rushing is if you have multiple infractions, your GLO could potentially loose their house for the following year and be moved into a suite or be moved into a less desirable house (No sorority wants a house that belonged to a fratenity for 5 years. Its just gross.)

[AOIIBuckeye]

Originally Posted by SydneyK

I've known of chapters to simply accept that they'll have rush infractions, and build the anticipated fines into their budgets. I wonder if, instead of the fine being paid to campus Panhellenic, the fine was divided among all non-dirty-rushing chapters and paid to them at the end of recruitment. You reckon that would reduce the amount of planned infractions? (Not saying it's allowed, just wondering.)

I love this idea, as improbably as it actually is. I know when I talked to friends in other GLOs that we were frustrated being told we all had to play by the rules, while the exact same chapters would have the same infractions for the same things year after year, with no consequences except the equivalent of a monetary slap on the wrist. It's been years since i've recruited and i'm still a little spiteful about that.

[katydidKD]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

I think you're asking if chapters can give away gifts during COB. The answer is "no".

From the MOI:

All Styles [of recruitment]: No favors or gifts may be given to women by the fraternity and/or individual members.

However, it's less clear that something like taking PNM's to a $300 spa day would be against the rules, and I think that's 33girl's point.

Yeah, I can see how that is a gray area. But it is so strange to me because you better make sure no one leaves with a napkin or something like that on accident during FR to avoid a "gift" infraction.

[SWTXBelle]

I would think social penalties - i.e., no mixers, semi-formals, formals, etc. - might be best as they don't violate NPC agreements and would hurt enough to get chapters' attention.

[SydneyK]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

I would think social penalties - i.e., no mixers, semi-formals, formals, etc. - might be best as they don't violate NPC agreements and would hurt enough to get chapters' attention.

My only problem with this is that the NMs get punished. Their first experience with Greek life is immediately limited in precisely the way they were hoping to enjoy it. While fines certainly affect NMs (since their sorority's budget would be impacted), it isn't as obvious or disappointing for them as social penalties would be.

[SWTXBelle]

While it would be a hardship, it would be a relatively minor one, and in fact that chapter would probably end up with a really strong sisterhood if they played it right. The social aspect is important, but not the most important.

Fines are TOO painless - and if they aren't, then the social aspect would be severely curtailed just because of budgetary constraints.

I would also be willing to bet that come next recruitment that chapter would think twice about breaking the rules.

[GreekGirley]

Fines are okay - but only for late lists, etc. They cannot be used for dirty rushing. But, I do love the idea of using the fines as a 'pay out' to chapters without violations. That's freakin awesome!

Here's another issue:
I would love to see a recruitment budget for a chapter be cut as a sanction. Now I know fines cannot be issued as punishment, but telling a chapter that they cannot spend as much would be the reverse of that. So, would that be acceptable?

The only issue I could see with that is this: our Panhellenic-mandated recruitment guidelines state that each chapter's recruitment budget cannot exceed $2,500. (I've got an issue with them telling us how much we can spend out of our own budget, but that's an issue for another day...) Well, that $2,500 limit is (and has been for years and year) a huge joke because most chapters I know have at minimum 2x that much in their chapter budgets for it and some in excess of 3x!! Once you account for food, supplies for philanthropy arts & crafts and rentals of things like tables & chairs, you're over budget without even factoring in the pretties like flowers. So, the Panhellenic is kidding themselves that chapters will keep expenditures at or under $2,500 during recruitment...but I've love to see them try to enforce an even lower budget.

Thoughts?

[katydidKD]

Originally Posted by GreekGirley

Fines are okay - but only for late lists, etc. They cannot be used for dirty rushing. But, I do love the idea of using the fines as a 'pay out' to chapters without violations. That's freakin awesome!

It is an awesome idea, maybe a more realistic version of it is Panhellenic gets the money as always, but only uses that money for Chapters without infractions, a special fund? I know PH cannot pay for socials because of liability, but they can loan/give money for sisterhoods, programming, etc (at least on my campus, so I would be shocked if it isn't allowed on a national level)

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by katydidKD

Yeah, I can see how that is a gray area. But it is so strange to me because you better make sure no one leaves with a napkin or something like that on accident during FR to avoid a "gift" infraction.

I really don't think that chapter get fined for this stuff. Certainly I've heard of it, but it's always second or third hand, so I am chalking it up to an urban legend for now.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by katydidKD

Yeah, I can see how that is a gray area. But it is so strange to me because you better make sure no one leaves with a napkin or something like that on accident during FR to avoid a "gift" infraction.

During formal, yes. During informal, as I said, you can really stretch what "gifts" entails.

Originally Posted by GreekGirley

Fines are okay - but only for late lists, etc. They cannot be used for dirty rushing. But, I do love the idea of using the fines as a 'pay out' to chapters without violations. That's freakin awesome!

I'm thinking you couldn't so much make it a straight up here's-a-check payout, as much as you could make it "hey XYZ, since you didn't dirty rush, you don't have to pay your yearly Panhel dues."

Originally Posted by GreekGirley

Here's another issue:
I would love to see a recruitment budget for a chapter be cut as a sanction. Now I know fines cannot be issued as punishment, but telling a chapter that they cannot spend as much would be the reverse of that. So, would that be acceptable?

The only issue I could see with that is this: our Panhellenic-mandated recruitment guidelines state that each chapter's recruitment budget cannot exceed $2,500. (I've got an issue with them telling us how much we can spend out of our own budget, but that's an issue for another day...) Well, that $2,500 limit is (and has been for years and year) a huge joke because most chapters I know have at minimum 2x that much in their chapter budgets for it and some in excess of 3x!! Once you account for food, supplies for philanthropy arts & crafts and rentals of things like tables & chairs, you're over budget without even factoring in the pretties like flowers. So, the Panhellenic is kidding themselves that chapters will keep expenditures at or under $2,500 during recruitment...but I've love to see them try to enforce an even lower budget.

Thoughts?

Even if you cut a chapter's budget - that is, "ABC dirty rushed and therefore they can only spend $1500 while everyone else spends $2500" - the alumnae are going to ride to the rescue and pay for stuff. That's a no brainer.