Married PNMs/Age for rush

[dnall]

Originally Posted by DDDlady

Just food for thought: If a 25+ year old pledged a sorority, the majority of her pledge class would be 17-19. What would that person have in common with girls that much younger? They would not be in the same life place, and I would think that the older girl might feel a little left out and not able to relate to the whole 18 year old freshman world. Similar thoughts for the married girl. Is she going to have the time to dedicate to the sorority events if she has school and a family to manage? How well will she be able to fit in and relate to her pledge class?

This is a sorority focused thing, so I'm not going to stick around beyond this little swerve, but...

I don't dispute anything you said there necessarily. I would just not like to see the sorority make that decision for the girl and not bid her because of it.

I say that because I recently saw a similar situation with my fraternity chapter in which they voted not to bid a guy that was about 25 I think and recently out of the military. Being in the military myself, I was kind of pissed about that. If you're going to hold military service against people, then we have a problem. Yeah, the guy is a few years older and in some ways is going to be different, but he also brings a lot of leadership and life experience to the table that 18-19yo pledges don't. Yeah, in some respects he may look or feel a little bit out of place in social settings with 18-19yo freshmen, but at the same time he gave up his chance at that college experience to be in the fight overseas, and now he's here going through rush trying to get a little bit of that back. I just don't think it's right for the organization to tell him he isn't entitled to that chance. I'd take a few guys like that over a few traditional freshmen any day. It's different, but they make the chapter better. I would want to see my org do the right thing in that situation rather than just be superficial.

Sorry. That's all I wanted to say. Back to your regularly scheduled program.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by dnall

This is a sorority focused thing, so I'm not going to stick around beyond this little swerve, but...

I don't dispute anything you said there necessarily. I would just not like to see the sorority make that decision for the girl and not bid her because of it.

I say that because I recently saw a similar situation with my fraternity chapter in which they voted not to bid a guy that was about 25 I think and recently out of the military. Being in the military myself, I was kind of pissed about that.

Sorry. That's all I wanted to say. Back to your regularly scheduled program.

It's different for NPC groups, though, because we have quota/total. If you bid a guy, he doesn't fit in, and drops out in a week, no biggie. If we bid a woman, she doesn't fit in, and drops out in a week, that's a spot that could have gone to someone else.

In that respect, I think I'd feel much more comfortable pledging a 25-year-old woman in a COB situation, where she wasn't taking a spot from someone else.

[dnall]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

It's different for NPC groups, though, because we have quota/total. If you bid a guy, he doesn't fit in, and drops out in a week, no biggie. If we bid a woman, she doesn't fit in, and drops out in a week, that's a spot that could have gone to someone else.

In that respect, I think I'd feel much more comfortable pledging a 25-year-old woman in a COB situation, where she wasn't taking a spot from someone else.

I completely respect that. It would probably be good for the orgs to tell her that up front during rush.

I think just looking from the outside it seems like sororities sometimes over think things. In this case, gaming the girl's ability to fit in or get the same enjoyment out of the experience. It seems like they sometimes make decisions for other people based on what they think that person might want but not actually giving them a chance.

That's a guy trying to understand women, so doomed to failure, but it just seems unfair sometimes.

As a chapter advisor in my late 30s, I'm able to walk into a chapter where I don't really know anyone and very quickly establish strong lasting friendships with a wide range of guys from pledge to president. I know that's a different situation. Clearly we have our love of the org in common and I'm there to help them advance that, but still on an interpersonal level the age/life-stage/experience stuff really isn't much of a factor. It's more of a difference; in the way one active is from England and no one else is.

By that I just mean it's a very individual thing if someone will fit in or not. I understand the concerns, but if the girl and the org can successfully overcome those, then it seems like everyone would be better for it in the end. It would just be nice for the girl to get a fair shot, in the same way I wanted the guy in my example to get a fair shot and was mad when he didn't with a lot of the same concerns expressed.

[Barbie's_Rush]

Originally Posted by dnall

I completely respect that. It would probably be good for the orgs to tell her that up front during rush.

I think just looking from the outside it seems like sororities sometimes over think things. In this case, gaming the girl's ability to fit in or get the same enjoyment out of the experience. It seems like they sometimes make decisions for other people based on what they think that person might want but not actually giving them a chance.

That's a guy trying to understand women, so doomed to failure, but it just seems unfair sometimes.

As a chapter advisor in my late 30s, I'm able to walk into a chapter where I don't really know anyone and very quickly establish strong lasting friendships with a wide range of guys from pledge to president. I know that's a different situation. Clearly we have our love of the org in common and I'm there to help them advance that, but still on an interpersonal level the age/life-stage/experience stuff really isn't much of a factor. It's more of a difference; in the way one active is from England and no one else is.

By that I just mean it's a very individual thing if someone will fit in or not. I understand the concerns, but if the girl and the org can successfully overcome those, then it seems like everyone would be better for it in the end. It would just be nice for the girl to get a fair shot, in the same way I wanted the guy in my example to get a fair shot and was mad when he didn't with a lot of the same concerns expressed.

Our business is deciding what is right for our chapter and our sisters.

[dnall]

Originally Posted by Barbie's_Rush

Our business is deciding what is right for our chapter and our sisters.

I don't dispute that. When I walk in as an advisor, like I did in the example I gave, and disapprove of a bid decision they make, I can't do anything about that. I can yell at them and make them feel like shit for what they just did, but it's their decision. I have no problem with that. I just said from an outside perspective it looks over thought and unfair. If it actually is or not isn't for me to say, and I'm not. I'm just stating a perspective. Moving on.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by dnall

I think just looking from the outside it seems like sororities sometimes over think things. In this case, gaming the girl's ability to fit in or get the same enjoyment out of the experience. It seems like they sometimes make decisions for other people based on what they think that person might want but not actually giving them a chance.

Well, if the chapter has a house, I think it's fair to assume that a married woman isn't going to live there. That could be a deal-breaker for a group that has a mortgage to pay.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by dnall

I think just looking from the outside it seems like sororities sometimes over think things.

Stop judging the chapters of these NPC sororities' practices. What your fraternity does is what works for your fraternity. It is not what works for every fraternity and sorority.

Originally Posted by dnall

That's a guy trying to understand women, so doomed to failure, but it just seems unfair sometimes.

This is not an issue of gender. This is not an issue of sororities vs. fraternities.

Originally Posted by dnall

As a chapter advisor in my late 30s, I'm able to walk into a chapter where I don't really know anyone and very quickly establish strong lasting friendships with a wide range of guys from pledge to president.

If you consider a 30+ noncollegiate forming strong lasting friendships with college students to be a good thing. I do not.

[Barbie's_Rush]

Originally Posted by dnall

This is a sorority focused thing, so I'm not going to stick around

THIS is where you should have stopped.

[dnall]

Originally Posted by Barbie's_Rush

THIS is where you should have stopped.

Seriously?

The whole place can come post in a thread in the ATO section specifically about ATO expansion and assume everything a personal attack on their own non-ATO org & chapter in every possible state, but I can't post something in an intro thread that tells a related story about fraternity recruitment or state a perspective that says all over it that it's outside looking in?

Really? Get over it. It's an intro thread.

[Barbie's_Rush]

Originally Posted by dnall

Seriously?

The whole place can come post in a thread in the ATO section specifically about ATO expansion and assume everything a personal attack on their own non-ATO org & chapter in every possible state, but I can't post something in an intro thread that tells a related story about fraternity recruitment or state a perspective that says all over it that it's outside looking in?

Really? Get over it. It's an intro thread.

You have proven to be an uniformed opinionated lane swerving jerk. This is about NPC recruitment. STFU already.

[dnall]

Originally Posted by Barbie's_Rush

You have proven to be an uniformed opinionated lane swerving jerk. This is about NPC recruitment. STFU already.

You should ref the fact you're quoting some JI lashing out (inappropriately no doubt) on your signature line and maybe figure out if I'm the only opinionated jerk around here. But, if you'd care to continue that conversation, it might a little classier of us to do so by PM.

[Barbie's_Rush]

Originally Posted by dnall

You should ref the fact you're quoting some JI lashing out (inappropriately no doubt) on your signature line and maybe figure out if I'm the only opinionated jerk around here. But, if you'd care to continue that conversation, it might a little classier of us to do so by PM.

What would be classy would be your not giving opinions and incorrect information about things you don't know about nor will ever understand.

Sorority membership selection =/= one fraternity's membership selection lorded over by some old guy who wants to be their friend

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by dnall

Seriously?

The whole place can come post in a thread in the ATO section specifically about ATO expansion and assume everything a personal attack on their own non-ATO org & chapter in every possible state, but I can't post something in an intro thread that tells a related story about fraternity recruitment or state a perspective that says all over it that it's outside looking in?

Really? Get over it. It's an intro thread.

The difference in these situations?

When I posted in the ATO section, I was correcting non-ATO business.

When you posted here, you gave information that's not relevant. This is like someone asking about the job market in Texas and you filling them in on the job market in Michigan. Cool story, but it's not relevant.

I'm still curious why you come to a discussion board but tell people to "get over it" when they begin discussing.

[DDDlady]

Originally Posted by dnall

I say that because I recently saw a similar situation with my fraternity chapter in which they voted not to bid a guy that was about 25 I think and recently out of the military. Being in the military myself, I was kind of pissed about that. If you're going to hold military service against people, then we have a problem. Yeah, the guy is a few years older and in some ways is going to be different, but he also brings a lot of leadership and life experience to the table that 18-19yo pledges don't. Yeah, in some respects he may look or feel a little bit out of place in social settings with 18-19yo freshmen, but at the same time he gave up his chance at that college experience to be in the fight overseas, and now he's here going through rush trying to get a little bit of that back. I just don't think it's right for the organization to tell him he isn't entitled to that chance. I'd take a few guys like that over a few traditional freshmen any day. It's different, but they make the chapter better. I would want to see my org do the right thing in that situation rather than just be superficial.

I never said anything about holding military service against anyone, and not giving them a chance. What I said was, I do not know how someone who is at that stage in their life could find a way to really relate to people 7+ years their junior. What would someone who has been out in the world, probably lived and worked on their own for a little while, really have in common with a bunch of younger people who (mostly) are away from home for the first time, getting their first real taste of freedom?

As for the right thing in that situation, what is that exactly? Should we bid all non trads purely because they are non trads and everyone should get to be greek? That's not how it works. Not everyone gets the chance to be Greek for a multitude of reasons. A chapter should bid a non trad for the same reason they should bid a traditional student; they feel that that woman would fit well in their chapter, and make a valuable member, regardless of age.