Terry Jones

[PiKA2001]

^^^^^
How about we start rounding up and prosecuting the folks that burn flags, bibles, books, and bras?

Do we *really* want to go there?

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

^^^^^
How about we start rounding up and prosecuting the folks that burn flags, bibles, books, and bras?

Do we *really* want to go there?

Well, as Kevin pointed out, we've already been there with flags. Bras, of course, are a completely different situation.

In any event, the question wasn't whether we want to go there. The question was if we did go there, would this be considered protected speech.

Originally Posted by Kevin

There's nothing directly on point. Brandenberg v. Ohio requires the speech to produce "imminent lawless action," but we all know what happened in a very similar case in Texas v. Johnson where the burning of the American flag was found to be protected expressive conduct because it only sometimes would result in lawless action, and that the test under Brandenberg required that the lawless action be imminent.

Here, I think the sort of lawless action certainly had a higher degree of imminence, what with the riots over the Mohammed cartoon, and with the lawless action that had been threatened.

I agree, and that's why I think it's at least a colorable argument.

I think a good argument could be made for a depraved heart murder sort of homicide crime, or at the very least, negligent homicide, assuming the jurisdictional issues can be made sense of. Inciting a riot would also be a possible charge.

Inciting a riot was the first thing that came to mind.

The jurisdictional stuff is interesting to me. Would Florida have jurisdiction because that's where the actions occurred which led to the deaths? The U.S. probably has a plausible theory as well.

The First Amendment issue is also really interesting, because I think there's a good fall back position if the courts would find that Brandenberg was satisfied. We live in a world which is extremely interconnected these days, and if some (admitted) wackadoodle in Florida does something not protected by Brandenberg, can he be held responsible for conduct only occurring in other countries and other cultures? Are we Americans going to be limited in our actions because those actions might incite mob violence halfway around the globe?

My first thought was that the US had the more likely jurisduction, particularly if the riots elsewhere had a direct affect on life or property at a place like a US embassy or military base, or had an effect on overseas troops.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

^^^^^
How about we start rounding up and prosecuting the folks that burn flags, bibles, books, and bras?

Do we *really* want to go there?

Like I said, the difference is that burning a Koran and broadcasting it on the internet after months of pre-publicity is basically guaranteed to result in riots and deaths. Burning a flag is unfortunately not all that rare an event and I don't know of a single act of violence that has occurred because of it.

All I'm saying is that an argument can definitely be made that this wasn't protected speech. Now, whether it is or not, we'll only know once the courts have had a chance to weigh in.

[agzg]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

^^^^^
How about we start rounding up and prosecuting the folks that burn flags, bibles, books, and bras?

Do we *really* want to go there?

I'd give you my bra to burn but I just bought it and it was expensive.

Sorry. Maybe I'll find an old one in my drawer that you can burn.

[Ghostwriter]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

^^^^^
How about we start rounding up and prosecuting the folks that burn flags, bibles, books, and bras?

Do we *really* want to go there?

"bout the only thing it is illegal to burn is a "joint".

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by Ghostwriter

"bout the only thing it is illegal to burn is a "joint".

There's a lot of things you can't burn...tires...garbage....people...

[Ghostwriter]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

There's a lot of things you can't burn...tires...garbage....people...

People can legally be burned. Cremation.

We can burn garbage in some remote areas of the rural south. You might be right about tires but somehow they always catch fire and no one gets in trouble.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by Ghostwriter

People can legally be burned. Cremation.

We can burn garbage in some remote areas of the rural south. You might be right about tires but somehow they always catch fire and no one gets in trouble.

And some places you can legally smoke marijuana too.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

And some places you can legally smoke marijuana too.

Not in the United States absent a few folks sanctioned by the feds.

There are some places you can bet on getting away with violating federal law though.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Not in the United States absent a few folks sanctioned by the feds.

There are some places you can bet on getting away with violating federal law though.

Point



Head.

It wasn't an actual argument just a reply to the GW stupidity.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by Ghostwriter

People can legally be burned. Cremation.

I'm pretty sure you need to be licensed in order to cremate. I've read a few news articles on people getting arrested for cremating grandma behind the shed of the family farm.

[agzg]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

There's a lot of things you can't burn...tires...garbage....people...

OMG. I died.