Concerns for Boyfriend going through Recruitment

[dnall]

I'm a couple years younger than that (I may have rounded up a couple years elsewhere) & she's a couple years older than you're giving her credit for, but you should still be ashamed of yourselves. I wouldn't come on here smacking someone else around over a fresh break up. That's just evil. Especially since it wasn't caused for a lack of love, friendship, or ability to relate, but because of people like yall giving each of us constant shit. If this was an interracial relationship between people of the same age you'd call people giving them crap bad people, but you try to insert yourself into our relationship without even knowing either one of us or how we felt about each other. That's fucked up. I don't care what you think it looks like on the surface. You don't think it bothered us when we figured out the age difference? It did, but love is bigger than that bullshit, or at least I thought it was. But that's it. I'm not commenting on it further, and if you want to keep talking about it then you're fucked up people.

Originally Posted by 33girl

As far as the young lady in question's pledge program - you get out of it what you put into it. If she didn't make an effort to get to know her pledge sisters and the rest of the sorority beyond what you described, didn't attend any events beyond what was required, didn't in effect GET HER MONEY'S WORTH, I'm sorry, but that's her own damn fault. Yes, a lot of these nationally mandated programs suck ass in some areas, but there's nothing the chapter can do about it. When you have 29 pledges who are busting their butts to get to know sisters, to get to know the rest of the Greek community, to attend all the events they can, and doing it without you twisting their arms, why on earth would you bother to twist the arm of #30 who does the bare minimum? If she felt her experience so subpar, she should not have initiated.

It's like 200 in her chapter, pledge class I think close to 60. They had Wed night pledge class socials that she had late class and an 8am so didn't go to about half of those, but did try very very hard to get to know her pledge sisters. She was a couple years older then them, having transferred, and had trouble relating to a bunch of snooty 18yo girls versus some of the older actives (maybe that sounds ironic given the above info, or maybe it doesn't I don't know).

I get that her new member educator epically sucked by that chapter's standards, and that the chapter in question is weak in that area compared to presumably every other sorority on campus. But that's how it worked out. Now she's back & forth between wanting to drop and loving it.

I don't know. I don't care anymore. None of this was the point. Only that a shitty pledge program makes for a horrible greek experience. For guys at least it needs to be hard. Some chapters achieve that through hazing. Others use a range of different methods very far away from being showered with gifts. Whatever it is going to be for this guy, it's no joke & he needs to be prepared with some serious backbone to face whatever that challenge might be. That's something that actives will be looking for in the rush process, and excessive questions about hazing MAY put that in question. It would for me.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by dnall

I'm going to refuse to comment on the personal stuff, and you should all be ashamed of yourselves.

Like I said...if you don't want people to pick it up...don't put it on the street. (ETA: LOL at the fact that I quoted the relatively benign quote, and you went back and dug your hole some more.)

Originally Posted by dnall

It's like 200 in her chapter, pledge class I think close to 60. They had Wed night pledge class socials that she had late class and an 8am so didn't go to about half of those, but did try very very hard to get to know her pledge sisters. She was a couple years older then them, having transferred, and had trouble relating to a bunch of snooty 18yo girls versus some of the older actives (maybe that sounds ironic given the above info, or maybe it doesn't I don't know).

I get that her new member educator epically sucked by that chapter's standards, and that the chapter in question is weak in that area compared to presumably every other sorority on campus. But that's how it worked out. Now she's back & forth between wanting to drop and loving it.

I'm betting that if a guy pledging your fraternity said these things, you would say "stop with the excuses. If you're not committed to this fraternity, the door is that way." But because it's a girl, she should get a pass? No.

Originally Posted by dnall

I don't know. I don't care anymore. None of this was the point. Only that a shitty pledge program makes for a horrible greek experience.

Again, excuses. Your Greek experience is what you make of it. If you want to keep blaming it on "my pledge mom didn't make sure everyone knew me" or "my pledge mom was lazy" or "my pledge mom was a bitch" - well, why not go further. Say your Greek experience is horrible because the shirt you got on bid day didn't fit, or the cheesecake you got at pref didn't have a strawberry on it and everyone else's did.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Say your Greek experience is horrible because the shirt you got on bid day didn't fit, or the cheesecake you got at pref didn't have a strawberry on it and everyone else's did.

I let out a guffaw.

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by dnall

I'm a couple years younger than that (I may have rounded up a couple years elsewhere) & she's a couple years older than you're giving her credit for, but you should still be ashamed of yourselves. I wouldn't come on here smacking someone else around over a fresh break up. That's just evil. Especially since it wasn't caused for a lack of love, friendship, or ability to relate, but because of people like yall giving each of us constant shit. If this was an interracial relationship between people of the same age you'd call people giving them crap bad people, but you try to insert yourself into our relationship without even knowing either one of us or how we felt about each other. That's fucked up. I don't care what you think it looks like on the surface. You don't think it bothered us when we figured out the age difference? It did, but love is bigger than that bullshit, or at least I thought it was. But that's it. I'm not commenting on it further, and if you want to keep talking about it then you're fucked up people.

As someone in an interracial age gap (more than 15 years) marriage, let me be the first to tell you that anything that happened between you and your lovely is completely on y'all. Nothing anyone outside of the relationship says has any bearing, whatsoever, on the success of the relationship.

You didn't end the relationship because of "constant shit." You ended it, because it wasn't a good relationship.

[LadyLonghorn]

Originally Posted by dnall

I'm a couple years younger than that (I may have rounded up a couple years elsewhere) & she's a couple years older than you're giving her credit for, but you should still be ashamed of yourselves. I wouldn't come on here smacking someone else around over a fresh break up. That's just evil. Especially since it wasn't caused for a lack of love, friendship, or ability to relate, but because of people like yall giving each of us constant shit. If this was an interracial relationship between people of the same age you'd call people giving them crap bad people, but you try to insert yourself into our relationship without even knowing either one of us or how we felt about each other. That's fucked up. I don't care what you think it looks like on the surface. You don't think it bothered us when we figured out the age difference? It did, but love is bigger than that bullshit, or at least I thought it was. But that's it. I'm not commenting on it further, and if you want to keep talking about it then you're fucked up people.


It's like 200 in her chapter, pledge class I think close to 60. They had Wed night pledge class socials that she had late class and an 8am so didn't go to about half of those, but did try very very hard to get to know her pledge sisters. She was a couple years older then them, having transferred, and had trouble relating to a bunch of snooty 18yo girls versus some of the older actives (maybe that sounds ironic given the above info, or maybe it doesn't I don't know).

I get that her new member educator epically sucked by that chapter's standards, and that the chapter in question is weak in that area compared to presumably every other sorority on campus. But that's how it worked out. Now she's back & forth between wanting to drop and loving it.

I don't know. I don't care anymore. None of this was the point. Only that a shitty pledge program makes for a horrible greek experience. For guys at least it needs to be hard. Some chapters achieve that through hazing. Others use a range of different methods very far away from being showered with gifts. Whatever it is going to be for this guy, it's no joke & he needs to be prepared with some serious backbone to face whatever that challenge might be. That's something that actives will be looking for in the rush process, and excessive questions about hazing MAY put that in question. It would for me.

You're blaming everyone else for your breakup? Of course. You and your ex were just like some kind of modern Capulet and Montegue. Those big meanies outside your relationships dis-troyed yew! Or maybe she just was done having some old dude gossiping on the internet about the chapters at her school.

[VandalSquirrel]

Originally Posted by LadyLonghorn

You're blaming everyone else for your breakup? Of course. You and your ex were just like some kind of modern Capulet and Montegue. Those big meanies outside your relationships dis-troyed yew! Or maybe she just was done having some old dude gossiping on the internet about the chapters at her school.

I'm still playing Angela Lansbury over here and trying to figure out the whole story. This is happening in Austin at UT, and she joined when she was older and transferred, or transferred in? She's older than we think? She's still thinking about dropping?

It all blows my mind that this 200 person chapter is too big, and she can't get to know her sisters, but in other posts the SEC is worshiped as the ideal. Aren't the chapters just as large or larger in the SEC?

This mystery brought me back to GC. I had been entertained by a 25 year old guy on an online poker forum choosing to move into his van and signing up for online dating sites, using 24 fitness to shower and working at a Borders, but this has picked up more than Uncle Rico acting out a Kenny Rogers song in a rapist van around Seattle.

[dnall]

I like the SEC in terms of history & also a lot of fraternity chapters but that's not restricted to SEC, not so much sororities, which are large also.

Honestly 70-115ish is solid for any greek org. You have enough money to operate at a high level, but you also have few enough people to be close to them & avoid too much cliqueiness as long as you really stay on top of it.

Disclaimer: Seriously, no offense to chapters bigger or smaller than that, I'm just stating an opinion.

Disclaimer2: why are disclaimers necessary?

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

As someone in an interracial age gap (more than 15 years) marriage, let me be the first to tell you that anything that happened between you and your lovely is completely on y'all. Nothing anyone outside of the relationship says has any bearing, whatsoever, on the success of the relationship.

You didn't end the relationship because of "constant shit." You ended it, because it wasn't a good relationship.

Of course there's more to it then that. I'm far from imperfect, but she had some issues about the age thing beyond just the age thing between us & beyond the constant shit from outside, that compounded with some family stressors to put it beyond dealing with anymore. It's a painful situation for both of us, and ultimately about a huge laundry list of things, the vast majority of which were less about our direct one-on-one relationship than... well just other outside things.

In any case, I appreciate the understanding. I'm quite confident though that GC is not the place to go for therapy.

[VandalSquirrel]

Originally Posted by dnall

I like the SEC in terms of history & also a lot of fraternity chapters but that's not restricted to SEC, not so much sororities, which are large also.

Honestly 70-115ish is solid for any greek org. You have enough money to operate at a high level, but you also have few enough people to be close to them & avoid too much cliqueiness as long as you really stay on top of it.

Disclaimer: Seriously, no offense to chapters bigger or smaller than that, I'm just stating an opinion.

Disclaimer2: why are disclaimers necessary?


Of course there's more to it then that. I'm far from imperfect, but she had some issues about the age thing beyond just the age thing between us & beyond the constant shit from outside, that compounded with some family stressors to put it beyond dealing with anymore. It's a painful situation for both of us, and ultimately about a huge laundry list of things, the vast majority of which were less about our direct one-on-one relationship than... well just other outside things.

In any case, I appreciate the understanding. I'm quite confident though that GC is not the place to go for therapy.

You can have your opinions, we all do, but what you believe is right and proper is unrealistic for many schools, let alone other fraternities, sororities, and beyond that groups that aren't historically and predominantly white and Christian.

It is hard not to take offense when you have posts like these:

http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...10#post2027910

Originally Posted by dnall

I don't know how many "pacific" chapters you've visited of any fraternity, but they are just not the same. Greek life in a lot of places in those regions is not strong. Many of those chapters don't care much about the ritual. I would prefer not to expand strongly in those directions. Not when there is so much other fertile territory elsewhere. Especially in places we've had chapters before.

http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...97#post2029697

Originally Posted by dnall

Greek life in the west sucks. It's a different thing completely. Unless you've spent some time around it in the south or on the east cost and to a lesser extent some places in the central US, you really don't understand what I'm saying.

In any case, this is an ATO asking about expansion in a geographic area where most locations are very weak. Nationals will try to keep things geographically balanced to some degree, but ultimately it's a business. You want big strong stable chapters with higher percentages of alumni that stay involved, preferably from schools where they have a better chance at doing well in life.

Why would I support going to a school with flat to declining recruiting numbers that support average chapters of 30 guys? Especially when I can go a dozen other places that will jump quickly to 70-90 guys and have strong regional alumni support.

There is also your post about groups shutting down or reinventing, which is also insulting. There are ways to express an opinion to get people to engage in a constructive dialog, which I find difficult to do when I read your posts. Why discuss something with someone who has a narrow focus and idea and can't or won't see the ideas and opinions of others without belittling or insulting people in the process?

[Regina.George]

Originally Posted by VandalSquirrel

You can have your opinions, we all do, but what you believe is right and proper is unrealistic for many schools, let alone other fraternities, sororities, and beyond that groups that aren't historically and predominantly white and Christian.

It is hard not to take offense when you have posts like these:

http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...10#post2027910



http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...97#post2029697



There is also your post about groups shutting down or reinventing, which is also insulting. There are ways to express an opinion to get people to engage in a constructive dialog, which I find difficult to do when I read your posts. Why discuss something with someone who has a narrow focus and idea and can't or won't see the ideas and opinions of others without belittling or insulting people in the process?

My favorite was this one, in speaking about all GLOS that are not historically white:

Originally Posted by dnall

I would say their founding was short sighted. They have lost their purpose & therefore should dissolve or remake themselves with a new change the world purpose. Otherwise it's sitting in a car that's out of gas blasting the radio and pressing on the pedals thinking you're getting to your destination. I'd rather see them out of the way so those members will go to orgs that do actively have a serious change the world mission to accomplish.

Now that we let 'those folks' in, those other shortsighted organizations have no purpose.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by Regina.George

My favorite was this one, in speaking about all GLOS that are not historically white:



Now that we let 'those folks' in, those other shortsighted organizations have no purpose.

I guess every org should just rename themselves ATO and be done with it.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by dnall

In any case, I appreciate the understanding. I'm quite confident though that GC is not the place to go for therapy.

Au Contraire, Mon Frère. That's exactly what we do here.

[VandalSquirrel]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

Au Contraire, Mon Frère. That's exactly what we do here.

Seriously, KSUViolet should gets hours towards a professional requirement in "a helping profession" for how nice she's been to some people in the recruitment forum. We already have our own GC DSM thread.

Is it therapeutic if sometimes coming to GC and reading certain posts or posters makes me feel more confident and grounded in how awesome my life and choices are? Should I ask if GC can receive some of my Health and Wellness insurance benefit?

I doubt they'd cover any medical issue arising from meat in a sink or GC after dark, how would that be coded? We better hope Planned Parenthood stays open and funded if people with meaty sinks are blowing up twatter.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by VandalSquirrel

I doubt they'd cover any medical issue arising from meat in a sink or GC after dark, how would that be coded? We better hope Planned Parenthood stays open and funded if people with meaty sinks are blowing up twatter.

I think those are covered by STD/Short-term Disability.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by VandalSquirrel

Seriously, KSUViolet should gets hours towards a professional requirement in "a helping profession" for how nice she's been to some people in the recruitment forum. We already have our own GC DSM thread.

Is it therapeutic if sometimes coming to GC and reading certain posts or posters makes me feel more confident and grounded in how awesome my life and choices are? Should I ask if GC can receive some of my Health and Wellness insurance benefit?

I doubt they'd cover any medical issue arising from meat in a sink or GC after dark, how would that be coded? We better hope Planned Parenthood stays open and funded if people with meaty sinks are blowing up twatter.

I personally come to GC during the workday to get my crazy out. While I do belong to several groups and organizations that do appreciate my particular sense of humor, my workplace is not one of them.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by dnall

Honestly 70-115ish is solid for any greek org. You have enough money to operate at a high level, but you also have few enough people to be close to them & avoid too much cliqueiness as long as you really stay on top of it.

Disclaimer: Seriously, no offense to chapters bigger or smaller than that, I'm just stating an opinion.

Disclaimer2: why are disclaimers necessary?

Because you use words like "any" in the bolded statement, which risks transforming your opinion of what is good to a generalization so broad as to be meaningless.

You speak from a specific experience: a large NIC fraternity. And you speak with a specific bias: SEC or SEC-like schools. There is nothing wrong with the NIC, the SEC or your experience. But the Greek world is much bigger than the NIC or the SEC, and it's much, much bigger than your experience. Ditto the slice of the Greek world represented on GreekChat.

There are campuses where your "solid" 70-115-person-chapter would be ludicrous. There are people who have no desire to be part of chapters that big. There are fraternities and sororities that would never consider chapters of that size because (and this should strike a chord with you) their experience is that chapters that large hinder their mission. One size doesn't fit all, even when that size is 70-115.

Avoid over-generalizing and speaking as though your fraternity experience defines the fraternity experience and you can avoid the disclaimers.