Philadelphia abortion doctor accused of murdering patient, newborns

[Ghostwriter]

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

So, instead of attacking women, why don't you take it upon yourself to help educate men so that they will be aware of their responsibility also.

I believe there are pro-choice men out there as well. Many of the pro-choice posters are men (I think, no way to prove it either way). Stating my opinion and pointing out alternatives to abortion is not attacking women or men. I do attack the act as incomprehensible, cruel and gruesome.

My understanding is that the women is the final decision maker when it comes to an abortion. I believe they can choose to have an abortion over the objections of the man. Do they always, of course not, but can they? I believe so. This is one of the central parts of the debate over pro-choice vs. pro-life. The law as written now allows the woman to choose what she will do with her body. I am one of those who chooses to speak up for the unborn child. If no one spoke up for the child there would necessarily be no debate and we all could congratulate ourselves on how wise we are. As long as abortion is legal all I can do is try to change others minds and point out alternatives (church, counseling, support groups, adoption, etc.).

And yes, the man is just as responsible for the child and should be responsible for its comfort and well being along with that of the mother. Unfortunately there are too many "men" who shirk their duties and obligations. These are not real men. I don't know what one can do about that other than state ones opinion and try to change the hearts/conscience of the father/s. Responsibility cannot be forced on people no matter what we say, do or legislate. We can only keep on trying.

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by Ghostwriter

I believe there are pro-choice men out there as well. Many of the pro-choice posters are men (I think, no way to prove it either way). Stating my opinion and pointing out alternatives to abortion is not attacking women or men. I do attack the act as incomprehensible, cruel and gruesome.

My understanding is that the women is the final decision maker when it comes to an abortion. I believe they can choose to have an abortion over the objections of the man. Do they always, of course not, but can they? I believe so. This is one of the central parts of the debate over pro-choice vs. pro-life. The law as written now allows the woman to choose what she will do with her body. I am one of those who chooses to speak up for the unborn child. If no one spoke up for the child there would necessarily be no debate and we all could congratulate ourselves on how wise we are. As long as abortion is legal all I can do is try to change others minds and point out alternatives (church, counseling, support groups, adoption, etc.).

And yes, the man is just as responsible for the child and should be responsible for its comfort and well being along with that of the mother. Unfortunately there are too many "men" who shirk their duties and obligations. These are not real men. I don't know what one can do about that other than state ones opinion and try to change the hearts/conscience of the father/s. Responsibility cannot be forced on people no matter what we say, do or legislate. We can only keep on trying.

In this thread you absolutely attack women and men who have differing opinions from yourself. Consider focusing on the act itself when voicing your opinions. Rudeness and hostility will change nothing, especially minds.

Also consider researching the plights of those less fortunate. Women without any sort of financial aid, family support, partner support, education, etc. simply do not have the options available to many of us. Instead of judging, it might be more productive to find ways to help them should they choose to carry the baby to term, which would make it more likely they would choose to do so instead of have an abortion. For instance, I have a relative that volunteered for an organization called Save-a-Life (sp?)...and though I disagree with some of the things many of the volunteers think and say, I did notice that they specifically reached out to women without healthcare or emotional and financial support. Yes, some of those women still had abortions, but some did not because they simply needed help getting on their feet. She has several stories of clients that have come back with their children and said that they had really wanted to keep their babies all along but were afraid they wouldn't be able to provide for them, and because of the resources the volunteers offered them they were able to become good parents. I firmly believe that is not the correct choice for every woman, but there are many out there that do not really want the abortion and just think it is their best option at the time due to their circumstances. For women in that particular position a service like that (as well as caring volunteers that are capable of leaving their judgments at the door) is really all they need.

[agzg]

Originally Posted by Ghostwriter

Many of the pro-choice posters are men (I think, no way to prove it either way).

Could you please break down the gender identities of the various posters in this thread?

[Ghostwriter]

Originally Posted by Alumiyum

In this thread you absolutely attack women and men who have differing opinions from yourself. Consider focusing on the act itself when voicing your opinions. Rudeness and hostility will change nothing, especially minds.

You seem to be able to dish it out in this and other threads but when it gets thrown back at you, you accuse others of attacking. Get the plank out of your own eye.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by Ghostwriter

You seem to be able to dish it out in this and other threads but when it gets thrown back at you, you accuse others of attacking. Get the plank out of your own eye.

Canned response much?

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by Ghostwriter

You seem to be able to dish it out in this and other threads but when it gets thrown back at you, you accuse others of attacking. Get the plank out of your own eye.

Actually, that is exactly what you are doing. Again, you will change nothing by being a judgmental blowhard, least of all minds. Here are some examples:

"If you put your own "reproductive" rights over that of the child then shame on you."

"I disagree with you and your ilk so live with it."

"Your conscience bothering you?"

"You and your ilk are pro-choice so wear it well"

"If you don't see that then I pity your humanity."

You are antagonistic, accusatory, hostile, and most of all...such a detriment to your cause. I'm beginning to think that what you're really interested in is an argument, and not the issue of abortion itself, because if you truly believed it was wrong you'd be working to change it and "change minds" instead of working against the cause.

As you have been repeatedly told, either suck it up and take it when you are treated as you treat others or stop being so hostile.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

Canned response much?

Exactly, there's no reason to continue to engage the troll.

[DaemonSeid]

Somewhat related...

Planned Parenthood loses Federal funding BY HOUSE VOTE.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

Somewhat related...

Planned Parenthood loses Federal funding.

One chamber of Congress has voted on it, it's not a done deal. Stop with the sensationalism.

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

One chamber of Congress has voted on it, it's not a done deal. Stop with the sensationalism.

It's possible it will happen, though. And IMO that's scary. Federal funding isn't used for abortions but PP and other organizations like it provide birth control, STD testing, and prenatal care cheap. That's a big deal for those without healthcare.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

One chamber of Congress has voted on it, it's not a done deal. Stop with the sensationalism.

It's not sensationalism, it's awareness.

Just because you don't agree with abortion doesn't mean you have to try to shut the story down.

And alumiyum is right, think of how much is lost if this does push through.

If somehow, you need help and have no insurance, you will have hardly any to no other alternative if Planned parenthood is gone.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

It's not sensationalism, it's awareness.

Just because you don't agree with abortion doesn't mean you have to try to shut the story down.

I said nothing about shutting the story down. In fact, I think it would be terrible for PP to lose funding, since they are a birth control provider. Less access to birth control = more "birth control" abortions.

However, your link title is false...that's what I'm objecting to. This has only passed the House and still has to go to the Senate. They have not yet lost federal funding.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

I said nothing about shutting the story down. In fact, I think it would be terrible for PP to lose funding, since they are a birth control provider. Less access to birth control = more "birth control" abortions.

However, your link title is false...that's what I'm objecting to. This has only passed the House and still has to go to the Senate. They have not yet lost federal funding.

Then all you needed to say was "DS can you please fix the title."

And it's done.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

Then all you needed to say was "DS can you please fix the title."

And it's done.

Yes, but that would be so unlike me.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

Yes, but that would be so unlike me.

It just would have been a lot easier...why do you like abusing meeeeee???????

it's cuz I'se black?