Protests In Wisconsin

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by agzg

I think it's both, but more the keeping collective bargaining at this point. Reports are that the Governor never even went to the unions for concessions in the first place (which is what some state governors are doing in order to fix their budget crises).

Originally Posted by KSig RC

This is basically the most meaningless statement possible. Besides that, it's simply not true.

They are elected to do what they feel is right - elected officials are only beholden to the public to the extent that they need to reelected. There's a reason why we don't just do a direct poll of each county and have officials vote that way. Saying "they have a responsibility to the minority" is pandering of the highest order, beyond being disingenuous.

I'd have to clarify this and say that they have a responsiblity to be sure that the RIGHTS of the minority are being upheld.

However your post makes me think of the musical 1776 - relatively realistically presented - where one representative went back and forth on how to vote, due to his concern over whether he was to represent specifically what his constituents wanted, or whether he was to use his best personal judgment. He fell down on the side of the latter.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

I'd have to clarify this and say that they have a responsiblity to be sure that the RIGHTS of the minority are being upheld.

Some would argue that's a higher-order Constitutional responsibility, and not specifically owed to a constituent group.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

Some would argue that's a higher-order Constitutional responsibility, and not specifically owed to a constituent group.

I'd agree with that group, and I'm well aware it's not what GW was saying. Just felt it important to mention

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by als463

Sad, isn't it? They keep trying to push a lot of us into taking on a geriatrics role but, I could never do that. I could, if I had to but, I wouldn't love my job. I always tell people that, I don't need to make a lot of money-I just want to make a difference. I have made a difference in the lives of various people and that's worth more than money, to me.

AGDee, where do you live? I'm coming there to work. I figure that if I'm so far in college debt (to the point of sacrificing my future first born), I may as well get into a field that I love. I am looking at furthering my education beyond this point but, who knows-maybe I'll just keep doing what I'm doing.

I really do hope that things get squared away in Wisconsin, though. Everybody suffers.

My key word there was probably ACSW. ACSWs can be therapists and bill insurance directly or charge/hour in private practice.

People need to keep in mind that for a teacher to make that $50K (or up to $70K in the city of Detroit), they need to have a Master's degree (also true of ACSWs), Specialists Degree or PhD. I know in most of the school districts around here, starting salary as a new teacher is around $34K. Compare that to a mechanical engineer who starts out around $60K. For every 10 credits of graduate work teachers do, they get an automatic bump in pay. I can't even imagine someone with an MBA being happy with $50K/year yet we're talking about the same amount of education.

And that Wisconsin governor who is doing all this? His salary? $137,092.
The legislators? Base salary: $49,943/year PLUS $88 a day for each day they are actually in session. That same Governor? No college degree because he left school his senior year.

http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.ph...lker#Education
http://sunshinereview.org/index.php/...e-legislator-3

ETA: At least Michigan's governor who is making drastic cuts has cut his own salary to $1/year.

[ThetaDancer]

On Friday, Republicans in the state assembly started voting on the budget repair bill before the session was scheduled to start. When Democrats arrived (again, before the session was scheduled to begin), Republicans were on the 3rd motion and the microphones for the Democrats had been turned off. When he was finally able to speak, Gordon Hintz, a representative from Oshkosh, was irate. This video of Hintz speaking is making the rounds on facebook, etc.; it sort of explains the tone that has been brewing in Wisconsin for a while. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZsOKNfNkfQ

FYI, the vote was later rescinded.

[KSUViolet06]

I mentioned this a little in the "what you feel like saying" thread, but I have heard of quite a few teachers who are seriously considering leaving the field over this bill in Ohio. These aren't even "close to retirement anyway so I'll just retire early" aged teachers, but teachers who haven't been in the field 5 years. Crazy.

[ProudandTrue]

Then they will likely have trouble finding a job, as so many others have. If they are lucky enough to find a job, I hope that they don't mind paying around 25% of their health care. And working 10 hour days at work, and likely throw in a couple more in the evening, but not being paid for that overtime. But at least they will get 2 weeks of vacation a year -- if they're lucky. And they should also remember to start contributing to their 401(k), for when/if they are lucky enough to be able to retire. Alas, they will
have to pay taxes on that, as well, when they are able to finally draw from it. Welcome to the reality of the private sector.

[AnchorAlum]

Originally Posted by ThetaDancer

On Friday, Republicans in the state assembly started voting on the budget repair bill before the session was scheduled to start. When Democrats arrived (again, before the session was scheduled to begin), Republicans were on the 3rd motion and the microphones for the Democrats had been turned off. When he was finally able to speak, Gordon Hintz, a representative from Oshkosh, was irate. This video of Hintz speaking is making the rounds on facebook, tumblr, etc., but it sort of explains the tone that has been brewing in Wisconsin for a while. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZsOKNfNkfQ

FYI, the vote was later rescinded.

I didn't watch the utuber, but what was the reason given for turning off the mikes? Was it because they cut off debate after X number of hours? News outlets are reporting that there had been over 17 hours of debate on the issue and that the Republicans wanted to vote and Dems wanted to continue debate.

Just asking.

[ThetaDancer]

I think the 17 hours of debate had been a different day. I haven't read anything that gives a reason for turning off the microphones.
Since a)the Dems noticed their microphones weren't on when they came in, b) the microphones for the Republicans were on, and c)the microphones for the Democrats were turned on after they were screaming to be heard and they were then allowed to discuss the bill, I'm inclined to believe it didn't have to do with cutting off debate but I'm not 100% sure.

[ZZ-kai-]

WI needs this bill to pass.

The way the Democrats have punked out is an absolute disgrace to the free society. The way they acted and the teachers 'sicking out' just shows our kids that it's OK to run from your problems and quit.

Full collective bargaining rights are not being taken away. Many, yes. All, no.

And the money portion of all this (pension contribution, healthcare) - that's what gets the most publicity because it directly effects every one of us WI taxpayers. To pay a measly 5% towards their own retirement and 12.6% of their healthcare premium? Wow, I'd KILL to have those benefits. I fund my own retirement account (with 2.5% match from my employer) and pay $1,100 per month for full healthcare for my family (50%).

Cushy state jobs need to go. Don't raise MY taxes for YOUR benefit.

Lastly, for all the teachers who are going to 'up and leave'. Good riddance I say. For every 1 quitter, there are 3 waiting in line for that job.

Democrats, man up. Time to pay the piper.

[ZZ-kai-]

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by ZZ-kai-

WI needs this bill to pass.

The way the Democrats have punked out is an absolute disgrace to the free society. The way they acted and the teachers 'sicking out' just shows our kids that it's OK to run from your problems and quit.

Full collective bargaining rights are not being taken away. Many, yes. All, no.

And the money portion of all this (pension contribution, healthcare) - that's what gets the most publicity because it directly effects every one of us WI taxpayers. To pay a measly 5% towards their own retirement and 12.6% of their healthcare premium? Wow, I'd KILL to have those benefits. I fund my own retirement account (with 2.5% match from my employer) and pay $1,100 per month for full healthcare for my family (50%).

Cushy state jobs need to go. Don't raise MY taxes for YOUR benefit.

Lastly, for all the teachers who are going to 'up and leave'. Good riddance I say. For every 1 quitter, there are 3 waiting in line for that job.

Democrats, man up. Time to pay the piper.

From everything I've read, the dispute is not about pay/retirement/healthcare, it is about collective bargaining rights. They said they'd accept those cuts and were told no.. there are several posts above to links that say that.

How about cutting the governor's pay in half?

[ThetaDancer]

Yeah I think the "it's all about the money" argument stopped working a while ago. Paul Krugman agrees. Like I've said, if Scotty is into union busting, he should just say that because advancing this issue as "budget repair" is dishonest.

[ZZ-kai-]

Scott Walker ran his campaign based on fixing the deficit and bringing the budget back in to balance and never hid the fact that he was going to go after public employees (unions) and their outrageous benefits and contacts, yet he was voted in by the majority. I think that most people are shocked that he took office and is actually following through on his promises.

Unions have no place in todays society. I thank them for what they did, but they also need to change as time goes by, and they didn't, so they must go.

I find it funny that this same union, who is willing to negotiate and give things up NOW, is the same union that tried to jam through their contract right as Walker came in to office....and refused to negotiate up til about a week ago when they saw their golden lifestyle threatened.

Ever see how much the union heads make? sickening.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by ZZ-kai-

Scott Walker ran his campaign based on fixing the deficit and bringing the budget back in to balance and never hid the fact that he was going to go after public employees (unions) and their outrageous benefits and contacts, yet he was voted in by the majority. I think that most people are shocked that he took office and is actually following through on his promises.

Unions have no place in todays society. I thank them for what they did, but they also need to change as time goes by, and they didn't, so they must go.

I find it funny that this same union, who is willing to negotiate and give things up NOW, is the same union that tried to jam through their contract right as Walker came in to office....and refused to negotiate up til about a week ago when they saw their golden lifestyle threatened.

Ever see how much the union heads make? sickening.

So why didn't he touch the firefighter's or state troopers' or police unions?

Speaking of, the firefighters' union agreed to accept the same pay cuts/benefit cuts as the other unions in return for retaining bargaining for all unions.