Protests In Wisconsin

[agzg]

Originally Posted by Ghostwriter

A typical teacher in Milwaukee makes ~$60K in salary with another ~40K in benefits thrown in.

This is wrong. The mean annual wage in Wisconsin for an Elementary School teacher is $51,240/year. (Bureau of Labor Statistics) For middle school it's $50,950, and for high school it's $54,720. Typical implies average, and mean and median refer to average, but the "typical" teacher is, in fact, not making "about $60,000."

In Milwaukee, specifically, according to Salary.com, the median wages for an elementary school teacher is $52,401/year. For high school it's $54,639. According to the BLS the mean for elementary is $56,370, for middle school is $52,610, and for high school is $54,620.

Also, these numbers are the MEANS and MEDIANS, meaning, there are people above and below these numbers because they don't account for experience, number of years teaching, educational background, etc. There sure are teachers making $60,000 a year - but they've been in that district for a while. While we're at it, the 10% and 25% marks run from $32,962 to $43,292, which is quite a bit less than $60,000. 90% tops out at $72,865, which is $12,000 more than $60,000.

ETA because I was curious: According to Salary.com the area with the most parity to Milwaukee in terms of cost of living in NC is the Charlotte area, which is 4.4% lower than Milwaukee. The median salary for an elementary school teacher in that area is $50,974, and for high school is $53,151.

If an elementary teacher making the median from Milwaukee (making $52,401 per year) were to move to Charlotte, NC, to make the median there ($50,974), according to the cost of living calculator on salary.com they would have a $22/year negative net change in disposable income.

[Ghostwriter]

Originally Posted by agzg

Also, these numbers are the MEANS and MEDIANS, meaning, there are people above and below these numbers because they don't account for experience, number of years teaching, educational background, etc. There sure are teachers making $60,000 a year - but they've been in that district for a while. While we're at it, the 10% and 25% marks run from $32,962 to $43,292, which is quite a bit less than $60,000. 90% tops out at $72,865, which is $12,000 more than $60,000.

ETA because I was curious: According to Salary.com the area with the most parity to Milwaukee in terms of cost of living in NC is the Charlotte area, which is 4.4% lower than Milwaukee. The median salary for an elementary school teacher in that area is $50,974, and for high school is $53,151.

If an elementary teacher making the median from Milwaukee (making $52,401 per year) were to move to Charlotte, NC, to make the median there ($50,974), according to the cost of living calculator on salary.com they would have a $22/year negative net change in disposable income.

I am sitting here doing my taxes for my daughter who is in her 4th year teaching High School and she made ~34K salary. So I know what I am talking about. Her salary has been frozen for all 4 years due to the NC budget crunch (with Dems in charge). She lives in the Charlotte area of which you compared means (usual average) and median (mid point of population). The little ~ means approximately. So if Milwaukee teachers in High School make 54K+ than I consider that the ~ neighborhood. The ~ 60K I gave as typical is probably within 3 standard deviations of the mean but I have not crunched the data. I will not use the term typical for semantics purposes again, but you get my point. They are certainly not poor as most would define poor.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by Ghostwriter

I am sitting here doing my taxes for my daughter who is in her 4th year teaching High School and she made ~34K salary. So I know what I am talking about. Her salary has been frozen for all 4 years due to the NC budget crunch (with Dems in charge). She lives in the Charlotte area of which you compared means (usual average) and median (mid point of population). The little ~ means approximately. So if Milwaukee teachers in High School make 54K+ than I consider that the ~ neighborhood. The ~ 60K I gave as typical is probably within 3 standard deviations of the mean but I have not crunched the data. I will not use the term typical for semantics purposes again, but you get my point. They are certainly not poor as most would define poor.

I strongly suspect that the "median" or "average" tenure of a Milwaukee public school teacher is more than 4 years. You're comparing apples with ping-pong balls here, son.

As I said before:

"It's really hard to use personal evidence and weigh it against statistics, since you have no idea what the "average" teacher tenure is in Milwaukee (maybe it's 20 years!), or what the educational requirements are (some districts still allow teachers to be licensed with just a BA, while others require one Master's and will increase your salary considerably if you get a second)."

[agzg]

Originally Posted by Ghostwriter

I am sitting here doing my taxes for my daughter who is in her 4th year teaching High School and she made ~34K salary. So I know what I am talking about. Her salary has been frozen for all 4 years due to the NC budget crunch (with Dems in charge). She lives in the Charlotte area of which you compared means (usual average) and median (mid point of population). The little ~ means approximately. So if Milwaukee teachers in High School make 54K+ than I consider that the ~ neighborhood. The ~ 60K I gave as typical is probably within 3 standard deviations of the mean but I have not crunched the data. I will not use the term typical for semantics purposes again, but you get my point. They are certainly not poor as most would define poor.

1. Anecdotal evidence =/= statistical evidence or generalizable data.
2. I know what ~ means and I gave you the 10%, 25%, and 90% markers for the data that I cited.
3. If your daughter has been working for four years, and wages have been frozen for four years, why are you surprised that your daughter is still making an entry-level salary?
4. Is your daughter not in the teacher's union?
5. Why are you doing your daughter's taxes for her? Are you an accountant?
6. Aren't we constantly saying not to make generalizations based on anecdotal data?
7. $54,000 =/= "about $60,000. It doesn't even round to "about $60,000.

[LaneSig]

Originally Posted by Ghostwriter

I am sitting here doing my taxes for my daughter who is in her 4th year teaching High School and she made ~34K salary. So I know what I am talking about. Her salary has been frozen for all 4 years due to the NC budget crunch (with Dems in charge). She lives in the Charlotte area of which you compared means (usual average) and median (mid point of population). The little ~ means approximately. So if Milwaukee teachers in High School make 54K+ than I consider that the ~ neighborhood. The ~ 60K I gave as typical is probably within 3 standard deviations of the mean but I have not crunched the data. I will not use the term typical for semantics purposes again, but you get my point. They are certainly not poor as most would define poor.

Personally, as a teacher, I think we are overpaid.

Basically, most people view us as babysitters. Most babysitters get paid $5 an hour. I have your kids for 8 hours a day. I will deduct their lunch time and my planning period and knock it down to 6 1/2 hours.

6.5 times 5 = 32.50 a day for 1 student. The average number of students is 25.

25 times 32.50 = $812.20. The state of Texas requires students to be in class 185 days.

185 times 812.50 = $150,312.50.

Go ahead, pay me $5 an hour per student instead of the average teacher salary of $50,000 with no overtime for all we do after school (grading papers, planning, taking classes on our own, sponsoring clubs, tutoring, chaperoning). I don't mind.

[sceniczip]

Originally Posted by LaneSig

Personally, as a teacher, I think we are overpaid.

Basically, most people view us as babysitters. Most babysitters get paid $5 an hour. I have your kids for 8 hours a day. I will deduct their lunch time and my planning period and knock it down to 6 1/2 hours.

6.5 times 5 = 32.50 a day for 1 student. The average number of students is 25.

25 times 32.50 = $812.20. The state of Texas requires students to be in class 185 days.

185 times 812.50 = $150,312.50.

Go ahead, pay me $5 an hour per student instead of the average teacher salary of $50,000 with no overtime for all we do after school (grading papers, planning, taking classes on our own, sponsoring clubs, tutoring, chaperoning). I don't mind.

I've always loved this and send it to everybody who whines about how much teachers are paid I also really like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxsOVK4syxU

[als463]

Originally Posted by LaneSig

Personally, as a teacher, I think we are overpaid.

Basically, most people view us as babysitters. Most babysitters get paid $5 an hour. I have your kids for 8 hours a day. I will deduct their lunch time and my planning period and knock it down to 6 1/2 hours.

6.5 times 5 = 32.50 a day for 1 student. The average number of students is 25.

25 times 32.50 = $812.20. The state of Texas requires students to be in class 185 days.

185 times 812.50 = $150,312.50.

Go ahead, pay me $5 an hour per student instead of the average teacher salary of $50,000 with no overtime for all we do after school (grading papers, planning, taking classes on our own, sponsoring clubs, tutoring, chaperoning). I don't mind.

LaneSig, when you put it that way-it makes a lot of sense. You raise a good point. I'd also like to add that I think many Social Workers should get paid more than they get, as well. I don't want to lump myself into that category because I do actually get paid very well for the particular field I'm in. I have seen, however, many hardworking Social Workers and Teachers that don't get nearly what they are worth.

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by als463

LaneSig, when you put it that way-it makes a lot of sense. You raise a good point. I'd also like to add that I think many Social Workers should get paid more than they get, as well. I don't want to lump myself into that category because I do actually get paid very well for the particular field I'm in. I have seen, however, many hardworking Social Workers and Teachers that don't get nearly what they are worth.

In my neck of the woods, an ACSW is going to make a whole lot more than any teacher in my neck of the woods.

However, I have always noted... our society's "value" on a job has nothing to do with the impact that people doing that job have on society as a whole. It only has to do with who brings money into the economy. When I'm King of the World, that will change. However, day care workers and nursing aides in nursing homes are two of the lowest paid groups of people out there. They ensure the well being of our kids and our parents.

How's that for family values?

[als463]

Originally Posted by AGDee

In my neck of the woods, an ACSW is going to make a whole lot more than any teacher in my neck of the woods.

However, I have always noted... our society's "value" on a job has nothing to do with the impact that people doing that job have on society as a whole. It only has to do with who brings money into the economy. When I'm King of the World, that will change. However, day care workers and nursing aides in nursing homes are two of the lowest paid groups of people out there. They ensure the well being of our kids and our parents.

How's that for family values?

Sad, isn't it? They keep trying to push a lot of us into taking on a geriatrics role but, I could never do that. I could, if I had to but, I wouldn't love my job. I always tell people that, I don't need to make a lot of money-I just want to make a difference. I have made a difference in the lives of various people and that's worth more than money, to me.

AGDee, where do you live? I'm coming there to work. I figure that if I'm so far in college debt (to the point of sacrificing my future first born), I may as well get into a field that I love. I am looking at furthering my education beyond this point but, who knows-maybe I'll just keep doing what I'm doing.

I really do hope that things get squared away in Wisconsin, though. Everybody suffers.

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by als463

Sad, isn't it? They keep trying to push a lot of us into taking on a geriatrics role but, I could never do that. I could, if I had to but, I wouldn't love my job. I always tell people that, I don't need to make a lot of money-I just want to make a difference. I have made a difference in the lives of various people and that's worth more than money, to me.

AGDee, where do you live? I'm coming there to work. I figure that if I'm so far in college debt (to the point of sacrificing my future first born), I may as well get into a field that I love. I am looking at furthering my education beyond this point but, who knows-maybe I'll just keep doing what I'm doing.

I really do hope that things get squared away in Wisconsin, though. Everybody suffers.

My key word there was probably ACSW. ACSWs can be therapists and bill insurance directly or charge/hour in private practice.

People need to keep in mind that for a teacher to make that $50K (or up to $70K in the city of Detroit), they need to have a Master's degree (also true of ACSWs), Specialists Degree or PhD. I know in most of the school districts around here, starting salary as a new teacher is around $34K. Compare that to a mechanical engineer who starts out around $60K. For every 10 credits of graduate work teachers do, they get an automatic bump in pay. I can't even imagine someone with an MBA being happy with $50K/year yet we're talking about the same amount of education.

And that Wisconsin governor who is doing all this? His salary? $137,092.
The legislators? Base salary: $49,943/year PLUS $88 a day for each day they are actually in session. That same Governor? No college degree because he left school his senior year.

http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.ph...lker#Education
http://sunshinereview.org/index.php/...e-legislator-3

ETA: At least Michigan's governor who is making drastic cuts has cut his own salary to $1/year.

[als463]

Originally Posted by agzg

This is wrong. The mean annual wage in Wisconsin for an Elementary School teacher is $51,240/year. (Bureau of Labor Statistics) For middle school it's $50,950, and for high school it's $54,720. Typical implies average, and mean and median refer to average, but the "typical" teacher is, in fact, not making "about $60,000."

In Milwaukee, specifically, according to Salary.com, the median wages for an elementary school teacher is $52,401/year. For high school it's $54,639. According to the BLS the mean for elementary is $56,370, for middle school is $52,610, and for high school is $54,620.

Also, these numbers are the MEANS and MEDIANS, meaning, there are people above and below these numbers because they don't account for experience, number of years teaching, educational background, etc. There sure are teachers making $60,000 a year - but they've been in that district for a while. While we're at it, the 10% and 25% marks run from $32,962 to $43,292, which is quite a bit less than $60,000. 90% tops out at $72,865, which is $12,000 more than $60,000.

ETA because I was curious: According to Salary.com the area with the most parity to Milwaukee in terms of cost of living in NC is the Charlotte area, which is 4.4% lower than Milwaukee. The median salary for an elementary school teacher in that area is $50,974, and for high school is $53,151.

If an elementary teacher making the median from Milwaukee (making $52,401 per year) were to move to Charlotte, NC, to make the median there ($50,974), according to the cost of living calculator on salary.com they would have a $22/year negative net change in disposable income.

Wow, I didn't realize teachers made that much. I hold an M.Ed. and I'm working on my MSW yet, the "well-paying" SW jobs are for the government at the VA and that's around the same amount as the teachers in Wisconsin. Knowing that, I have a hard time feeling bad for teachers who make 50k a year-even if they are living in Milwaukee or Charlotte. I hope everything gets worked out, though.