Protests In Wisconsin

[Beryana]

Wisconsin's isn't cutting education. It is severely limiting the collective bargaining units and requiring public employees to contribute 5.6% to their retirement accounts (current contribution is .2%) and 12.8% of their health care premiums (currently 4-6%).

The 'missing' Senators were found down in Rockford, IL. I am not sure when they would be coming back. Personally, that is not cool as they are being paid to do a job and have basically walked off that job. I'm also not happy with the teachers who closed down schools by calling in sick so they could go to the Capitol to protest - that shows the kids really ARE a priority (sarcasm). . . .

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by Beryana

Wisconsin's isn't cutting education, it's severely limiting the collective bargaining units as well as requiring public employees to contribute 5.6% to their retirement accounts (current contribution is .2%) and 12.8% of their health care premiums (currently 4-6%).

The 'missing' Senators were found down in Rockford, IL. I am not sure when they would be coming back. Personally, that is not cool as they are being paid to do a job and have basically walked off that job. I'm also not happy with the teachers who closed down schools by calling in sick so they could go to the Capitol to protest - that shows the kids really ARE a priority (sarcasm). . . .

Walking out is not something that teachers do lightly. (Or any union I'd say.) I'm fairly union-neutral but acting like it means they don't care or did it for 'fun' or something misses the point entirely.

[ThetaDancer]

Originally Posted by Beryana

Wisconsin's isn't cutting education, it's severely limiting the collective bargaining units as well as requiring public employees to contribute 5.6% to their retirement accounts (current contribution is .2%) and 12.8% of their health care premiums (currently 4-6%).

The 'missing' Senators were found down in Rockford, IL. I am not sure when they would be coming back. Personally, that is not cool as they are being paid to do a job and have basically walked off that job. I'm also not happy with the teachers who closed down schools by calling in sick so they could go to the Capitol to protest - that shows the kids really ARE a priority (sarcasm). . . .

Really? The front page of today's Journal Sentinel (a paper that endorsed Walker, btw) told a completely different story today.

[Beryana]

Originally Posted by ThetaDancer

Really? The front page of today's Journal Sentinel (a paper that endorsed Walker, btw) told a completely different story today.

Have you actually READ the bill?! http://legis.wisconsin.gov/

[AOEforme]

Originally Posted by Beryana

Have you actually READ the bill?! http://legis.wisconsin.gov/

I did. Do you realize what the budget for MPS currently is? Without this proposal?

While I am all for making cuts where necessary, this is not the way to do it.

Should public employees take a cut in these hard economic times? Yes. But there is no reason whatsoever to destroy collective bargaining, union benefits, and educational funding.

In addition, his (and Biddy Martin's) ideas to separate UW system are ridiculous. That's another story though....

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by AOEforme

I did. Do you realize what the budget for MPS currently is? Without this proposal?

While I am all for making cuts where necessary, this is not the way to do it.

Should public employees take a cut in these hard economic times? Yes. But there is no reason whatsoever to destroy collective bargaining, union benefits, and educational funding.

In addition, his (and Biddy Martin's) ideas to separate UW system are ridiculous. That's another story though....

Exactly (to your bolded). For someone who claims to have read the bill, Beryana ruined all her(?) credibility by pulling the "children aren't a priority" card.

[Beryana]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Exactly (to your bolded). For someone who claims to have read the bill, Beryana ruined all her(?) credibility by pulling the "children aren't a priority" card.

And I should care what you think, why? But then again, I did forget I should keep my thoughts and opinions to myself around here. . .

The only non-academic, current news articles that I have read in recent weeks were yesterday and today. I am not an 'education expert', nor do I read the Milwaukee paper (or Madison, Green Bay, Appleton, Wausau, etc.). I am basing my statements on what I have read in the bill. I still like the bill and am still disappointed the Senate Democrats had to pull theatrics and are basically not willing to discuss/debate the issue (and my Senator sits on the Finance committee which drafted this bill). Please explain how this bill affects education funding? Without the unions the education system will completely fall apart? I have only attended a publicly or state funded school for 4 years out of 21 years of school (Kindergarten, senior year of college and 2 years of graduate school) so, maybe, I just do not completely understand how this bill directly affects education funding. I would love to be enlightened.

As to 'compelling' the Senate Democrats to show up for work, they left the state so the State Patrol could not 'escort' them back. AOII Angel, since it is not unheard of, please explain when the entire minority party of a Wisconsin legislative house has left the state to avoid a vote on a bill.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by Beryana

And I should care what you think, why? But then again, I did forget I should keep my thoughts and opinions to myself around here. . .

Obviously you care to some extent or you wouldn't have bothered sharing. Your choice to do so, means that people get to reply to your posts. Welcome to the internet. However instead of commenting on what you read in the bill you decided to claim that teachers didn't care about children which is an oft-used slam against unions and patently untrue. When people say things that are false, other people stop listening to them - *poof* credibility gone. Similarly many people stopped listening to the governor when he threatened to call out the National Guard (who very politely told him to shove it.)

And if you don't think that the attempt to quash collective bargaining would have any significant effect on public schools when most if not all public school teachers are in the union, yeah I'm pretty sure the system falls apart even if only temporarily while schools have to rehire/restructure/etc.

The only non-academic, current news articles that I have read in recent weeks were yesterday and today. I am not an 'education expert', nor do I read the Milwaukee paper (or Madison, Green Bay, Appleton, Wausau, etc.). I am basing my statements on what I have read in the bill. I still like the bill and am still disappointed the Senate Democrats had to pull theatrics and are basically not willing to discuss/debate the issue (and my Senator sits on the Finance committee which drafted this bill). Please explain how this bill affects education funding? Without the unions the education system will completely fall apart? I have only attended a publicly or state funded school for 4 years out of 21 years of school (Kindergarten, senior year of college and 2 years of graduate school) so, maybe, I just do not completely understand how this bill directly affects education funding. I would love to be enlightened.

Are you aware that although a bill may not specifically state that it is cut funding in a certain area the intended effect is to cut that funding? Also, legislators often propose multiple bills that have a cascading effect. Here is just one article discussing the effects of the cuts on education which are in the hundreds of millions of dollars. In this article, the governor does not deny the cuts, simply saying that he wants to offset them with other income. Which would seem to confirm the interpretation of the "education leaders" described.

This article describes how the proposed budget cuts will be 'offset' by the 'savings' caused by the current bill. As the same people are proposing both the budget and the current bill these things tend to work together to create action.

As to 'compelling' the Senate Democrats to show up for work, they left the state so the State Patrol could not 'escort' them back. AOII Angel, since it is not unheard of, please explain when the entire minority party of a Wisconsin legislative house has left the state to avoid a vote on a bill.

To the people who voted for those Democrats, odds are they're doing exactly the job they were hired to do. If their constituents want them to protect their jobs/rights to unionize then they're doing their best to make sure the bill doesn't pass, aren't they?

Additionally, don't you think it's odd how police and firefighter unions were left alone and will still have all their rights? Like maybe this isn't about principle because it's not applied to public employee unions across the board? It's almost as if they don't want to piss off certain groups, who maybe vote for them.

[agzg]

Originally Posted by Beryana

As to 'compelling' the Senate Democrats to show up for work, they left the state so the State Patrol could not 'escort' them back. AOII Angel, since it is not unheard of, please explain when the entire minority party of a Wisconsin legislative house has left the state to avoid a vote on a bill.

You realize there are other states besides Wisconsin, right? In Texas, they were called the Texas Eleven, and they were gone for 46 days. They got important concessions, even though the bill they objected to did eventually pass.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Eleven

The reason they did it, and why the Senators are doing it now, is that the Republicans have enough votes to pass the bill right now, but there are a couple of Republican Senators who might waver in their support of the bill. The goal is to keep public pressure on those Senators (prolonging the demonstrations) so that they flip and the bill does not pass. They are very much "showing up to work" despite what people say on TV. They're representing their constituents the only way they can, at this point, and it's a legitimate political tactic.

Something I've noticed is that people don't understand the difference between Quorum and passing a bill, which is surprising to me.

[ThetaDancer]

Originally Posted by Beryana

Have you actually READ the bill?! http://legis.wisconsin.gov/

Sure did.

To be honest, your sentence

Wisconsin's isn't cutting education, it's severely limiting the collective bargaining units as well as requiring public employees to contribute 5.6% to their retirement accounts (current contribution is .2%) and 12.8% of their health care premiums (currently 4-6%)

is a punctuation nightmare, so I may have misread it. I thought you were saying the forthcoming budget proposal wouldn't make any cuts into education. I was just curious how you knew so much more than all of the education officials mentioned in the Journal Sentinel's article today.

Maybe Werwie just got back to you first.