Protests In Wisconsin

[Drolefille]

There is also apparently some clause in this bill that allows Walker to sell off state assets at pretty dirt cheap prices to certain corporate interests. I'm trying to find the link that details this part of the bill.

[KSig RC]

Wait - did we just compare factory workers to teachers? I mean, I think teachers are second only to old people in the "unnecessarily coddled" class, but ... I mean ...

Collective bargaining for state employees is a necessity - look at any of the half-dozen studies put forward in the media in the last month or so that show that state employees make significantly less than private-sector counterparts ... and now think that some of these (metermaids) are fungible, and some of these (teachers, firefighters) are absolutely not.

This isn't rocket science. The inefficiency isn't teachers, guys.

[Drolefille]

16.896 Sale or contractual operation of state-owned heating, cooling, and power plants. (1) Notwithstanding ss. 13.48 (14) (am) and 16.705 (1), the department may sell any state-owned heating, cooling, and power plant or may contract with a private entity for the operation of any such plant, with or without solicitation of bids, for any amount that the department determines to be in the best interest of the state. Notwithstanding ss. 196.49 and 196.80, no approval or certification of the public service commission is necessary for a public utility to purchase, or contract for the operation of, such a plant, and any such purchase is considered to be in the public interest and to comply with the criteria for certification of a project under s. 196.49 (3) (b).

The Atlantic -Blog

[AGDee]

And more "union busting" tactics at the local level in Michigan. A local community has voted to lay off the entire fire department but the city attorney told local media that if they accept concessions, the lay offs might not happen. So, it's not just "we need to lay off some people" if concessions aren't made, it's "we need to get rid of the whole fire department". The only way this is totally budget related is if they want the whole department to work for free, so laying off the entire department makes no sense.

http://www.wxyz.com/dpp/news/region/...ire-department

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by AGDee

And more "union busting" tactics at the local level in Michigan. A local community has voted to lay off the entire fire department but the city attorney told local media that if they accept concessions, the lay offs might not happen. So, it's not just "we need to lay off some people" if concessions aren't made, it's "we need to get rid of the whole fire department". The only way this is totally budget related is if they want the whole department to work for free, so laying off the entire department makes no sense.

http://www.wxyz.com/dpp/news/region/...ire-department

Ha...so we'll just gp back to the old days of spitting on our house fires?

[IrishLake]

There is such a thing as volunteer fire departments. It's not unheard of around here for small municipalities to ax the fire department and/or police department budget. County sheriffs deputies then take over patroling that area, and the fire department goes to a volunteer, or looks to a neighboring department.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by IrishLake

There is such a thing as volunteer fire departments. It's not unheard of around here for small municipalities to ax the fire department and/or police department budget. County sheriffs deputies then take over patroling that area, and the fire department goes to a volunteer, or looks to a neighboring department.

While many smaller or rural areas around here have volunteer fire depts with backup coming from larger cities, I've never seen a regular FD get fired.

You can't even put together a volunteer dept that fast. If that town goes through with it, then they better have a good backup plan.

[ThetaDancer]

So apparently someone called Scott Walker pretending to be David Koch and put the recorded conversation online. The site at which the conversation was originally posted crashed but I guess it can also be found here.

Anyone have any clue if that is real? It sounds exactly like Walker but I'm just hesitant to believe anyone's this dumb.

ETA: Walker's office confirmed it.

[agzg]

Originally Posted by ThetaDancer

So apparently someone called Scott Walker pretending to be David Koch and put the recorded conversation online. The site at which the conversation was originally posted crashed but I guess it can also be found here.

Anyone have any clue if that is real? It sounds exactly like Walker but I'm just hesitant to believe anyone's this dumb.

I'm listening to it now, and it's like - he's saying pretty much the same stuff he's already said - the Koch impersonator is actually seeming to make him a little uncomfortable...

[AOEforme]

From USA today: "Walker spokesman Cullen Werwie confirms the governor is on audio of the call posted Wednesday on the website of the Buffalo Beast, a left-leaning New York newspaper" (http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-02-23-wisconsin-public-unions_N.htm)

[ThetaDancer]

Originally Posted by agzg

I'm listening to it now, and it's like - he's saying pretty much the same stuff he's already said - the Koch impersonator is actually seeming to make him a little uncomfortable...

Yeah some of it was same old same old. But some of it was news to me...like his plan to send out 6,000 "at risk for being laid off" notices as a scare tactic and that he considered planting people in the protests to cause trouble.

And some of it was just plain weird (like the Reagan stuff, or talking about his plan as "a bomb"). Delusions of grandeur. And of course the whole "Yes that would be outstanding" in response to "after you crush these bastards I'll fly you to Cali."

It's also the closest admission I've heard from him about this being coordinated in multiple states.

Walker: I talk to Kasich every day-John's gotta stand firm in Ohio. I think we could do the same thing with Scott in Florida. I think, uh, Snyder-if he got a little more support-probably could do that in Michigan. You start going down the list there's a lot of us new governors that got elected to do something big.

Koch: You're the first domino.
Walker: Yes, this is our moment.

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by IrishLake

There is such a thing as volunteer fire departments. It's not unheard of around here for small municipalities to ax the fire department and/or police department budget. County sheriffs deputies then take over patroling that area, and the fire department goes to a volunteer, or looks to a neighboring department.

Originally Posted by Drolefille

While many smaller or rural areas around here have volunteer fire depts with backup coming from larger cities, I've never seen a regular FD get fired.

You can't even put together a volunteer dept that fast. If that town goes through with it, then they better have a good backup plan.

We're not talking about a small rural town. We're talking about a city with a population of over 27,000. The only "volunteer" fire departments I've ever heard of were actually pay per call, not true volunteers. Most of our fire departments have some pay per call members and those people are "on call" for certain shifts. But seriously, relying on an ALL volunteer fire department in this day and age seems kind of crazy. That may have worked if people were farmers and could hear some signal to go to a fire, but when everybody is at their real jobs, who goes to a fire if it is all volunteer? By the time they'd get back to their city of residence, the whole city could be wiped out.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by AGDee

We're not talking about a small rural town. We're talking about a city with a population of over 27,000. The only "volunteer" fire departments I've ever heard of were actually pay per call, not true volunteers. Most of our fire departments have some pay per call members and those people are "on call" for certain shifts. But seriously, relying on an ALL volunteer fire department in this day and age seems kind of crazy. That may have worked if people were farmers and could hear some signal to go to a fire, but when everybody is at their real jobs, who goes to a fire if it is all volunteer? By the time they'd get back to their city of residence, the whole city could be wiped out.

I think Troy is all volunteer.

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

I think Troy is all volunteer.

Sort of. After 10 years of service, they are eligible for a pension. They also have 180 firefighters. Allen Park has 27.

[sceniczip]

Our fire department is a lot volunteer and some paid. Here's the link to the history http://www.valleycityfire.com/siteco...x/page/History It's actually pretty interesting I had a friend who was a volunteer. He lived about a mile away and when on call he just hung out at home.

We do have an ongoing joke that if your house ever catches on fire you better grab the marshmallows on the way out

We have a city about 5 miles away that has a full fire department. It's not ideal but if we had to we could always use them too.