Etiquette?

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Again, there is no consensus over what basic etiquette is "down here." You consider basic etiquette to be things like men standing when a woman does. I do not. Yet, I'm still from "down here."



Then we agree.

Therefore, like I said, people need to know the difference between teaching "basic etiquette" versus teaching "stereotypically southern etiquette" and "teaching gender." Don't confuse the three and teach people to read context.

Which again, comes back to arming them with the knowledge. They don't have to use it, but it's good to know. You might not consider those things basic, but many, many people do. No one's going to have a stroke because Mr. X forgets to hold the door open for his date, but some people will take note, and that's just reality. It's just like the example I used of people who do business internationally. They arm themselves with the correct etiquette for the region and business setting, and this is no different. Which is why it's important to be taught these things, then pick up on when they are necessary and when they are not. And that is as simple as observing your surroundings.

ETA: IrishLake's story about the formal date from Georgia is a good example of knowing your surroundings. When everyone at the table looks very confused as to why you're standing up for the ladies, it's time to just stay seated. Were he at dinner with a bunch of older ladies from back home and didn't stand, they would likely think he was rude or, "Bless his heart, he just doesn't know any better". (Though I will say, he deserves credit for trying to be polite, even if he missed the clues.)

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Alumiyum

Which again, comes back to arming them with the knowledge. They don't have to use it, but it's good to know.

Right---Just don't confuse teaching "table etiquette" with teaching "stereotypically southern etiquette" (for southern chapters) and "teaching gender." And don't attempt to impose a certain view of overall etiquette on everyone as though there is a consensus across contexts.

That was always my point.

Originally Posted by Alumiyum

And that is as simple as observing your surroundings.

Correct.

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Just don't confuse teaching "table etiquette" with teaching "stereotypically southern etiquette" (for southern chapters) and "teaching gender." And don't attempt to impose a certain view of overall etiquette on everyone as though there is a consensus across contexts.

That was always my point.



Correct.

Perfect, as I didn't do any of those things. As I said, it's important to teach them these little customs. It's up to them to know when to use them. Sometimes it will be VERY important, and other times it will look silly. The etiquette teacher needs to prepare them for different situations...he/she can't follow them to every social event.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Alumiyum

Perfect, as I didn't do any of those things.

Uh...yeah...I was and still am talking about etiquette teachers and etiquette classes. I don't know what you not doing any of those things has to do with this discussion.

Originally Posted by Alumiyum

The etiquette teacher needs to prepare them for different situations...he/she can't follow them to every social event.

Correct.

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Uh...yeah...I was and still am talking about etiquette teachers and etiquette classes. I don't know what you not doing any of those things has to do with this discussion.




Correct.

Your "don'ts" including the implied "you".

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by Alumiyum

Your "don'ts" including the implied "you".

No, you inferred the "you" even though she's been saying the same thing since the beginning of the thread.

Also you do seem to have confusion around it since you identified the young man who stood's actions as "the right thing" that no one else was appreciating.


Seriously, two threads that need pineapple.jpg in the same day...

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Alumiyum

Your "don'ts" including the implied "you".

That is a general you to be applied to etiquette teachers and etiquette classes, just as it was in my very first post.

ETA: But, I can see why "you" thought I was typing to "you" about "you." I don't assume that "you" confuse the three because your posts were only specifically about "southern etiquette" and what men "should" do.

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

No, you inferred the "you" even though she's been saying the same thing since the beginning of the thread.

Also you do seem to have confusion around it since you identified the young man who stood's actions as "the right thing" that no one else was appreciating.


Seriously, two threads that need pineapple.jpg in the same day...

No, I inferred "you" as her post was in direct response to mine, and focused on the fact that I keep saying I think it's important to teach these customs so that the student can use them if need be. I have no confusion whatsoever, but what I do have is respect for those that TRY to be polite, even if are using the wrong customs in the wrong situation. I have respect for the thought behind the actions.

Originally Posted by DrPhil

That is a general you to be applied to etiquette teachers and etiquette classes, just as it was in my very first post.

ETA: But, I can see why "you" thought I was typing to "you" about "you." I don't assume that "you" confuse the three because your posts were only specifically about "southern etiquette" and what men "should" do.

Yes, my posts were directly in response to yours that I quoted, and as those particular posts kept referencing how ridiculous you think some of these things are, I responded accordingly.