Hazing: University of Colorado: Alpha Phi

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by VandalSquirrel

This happens in fraternities as well, and I've seen it on my campus where a bid is given and then new members are taken to a party to drink (I've even heard people say to learn how to drink in a safe place). I'm really not okay with it for various reasons, but how many new members will be able to say NO if they don't know anyone outside this new group they joined, and also people could come from a background with alcohol abuse in their family, or even of their own. There are so many opportunities to party in college that I wish we (meaning Greeks) could give people a little space and not do this to people right off the bat. Even though women's groups are having alcohol and man free bid day events, that doesn't mean there isn't booze the next day.

Granted this can be completely different for other schools, but in the case of here students receive bids and move into chapter facilities before they have even attended one class. Even if rush is second semester people want to fit in, be accepted, and be liked, and saying no to an uncomfortable situation is difficult for a lot of people.

I hear of it all the time in fraternities, though less so in sororities, which I think is mostly because of the more strict rules. Back on my Bid Day a bunch of us went to various houses and then the bar in town. The difference was that hours before at the sorority's Bid Day party girls who were going out announced that they were and that anyone was welcome...and the girls in the chapter that didn't drink or just didn't feel like it made it known that they were going too (or had other plans), and that it was just fine to drink nothing, or skip parties and the bar all together. Many in my pledge class drank underage as you'd expect, but many didn't and they were always made to feel included in whatever going out adventure was available on any given night. I drank, but I honestly never felt pressured to drink the entire time I was an active. We didn't do everything right, but I was always glad we had a nice even mix of partiers and non-partiers so that no one got left out or felt the need to change their habits in order to fit in when it came to the choice to drink or not.

[VandalSquirrel]

Originally Posted by Alumiyum

I hear of it all the time in fraternities, though less so in sororities, which I think is mostly because of the more strict rules. Back on my Bid Day a bunch of us went to various houses and then the bar in town. The difference was that hours before at the sorority's Bid Day party girls who were going out announced that they were and that anyone was welcome...and the girls in the chapter that didn't drink or just didn't feel like it made it known that they were going too (or had other plans), and that it was just fine to drink nothing, or skip parties and the bar all together. Many in my pledge class drank underage as you'd expect, but many didn't and they were always made to feel included in whatever going out adventure was available on any given night. I drank, but I honestly never felt pressured to drink the entire time I was an active. We didn't do everything right, but I was always glad we had a nice even mix of partiers and non-partiers so that no one got left out or felt the need to change their habits in order to fit in when it came to the choice to drink or not.

I think that our schools are different, and that's the issue here. I know there are parties where women are taken off campus as a group after sorority bid day but before fraternity bid day, and the point is to have alcohol, and it always happens off campus. Women go, even if they don't drink, because they want to be part of the group and everyone else is going. Trying to get home is difficult because you are new on campus, even if you're a sober driver, and so there's a pressure to be with the group even if one isn't drinking. There are very few 17 & 18 year old women who can say they don't want to drink or go, and I find it ridiculous that we have to do this right off the bat. (As a complete aside I don't think we should be "teach people to drink" because there are a lot of opportunities for experimentation and we should work on helping people adjust and feel comfortable, and I'm a huge fan of delayed recruitment and not living in the chapter facility right off the bat.)

The norm here is for a fraternity to have a camping trip for their bid day and women are going to this, off campus. New members are leaving campus, there's alcohol involved, and I wish we weren't creating/supporting risk management situations for people who haven't attended class yet and we are their whole world. Not to say things can't happen at an on campus party, but at least women could walk home and be able to get away from a situation that they don't want to be in. I know there are some men who are new members who are uncomfortable joining and right away girls and booze but they talk about it less because of their own gender/fraternity culture.

Maybe I'm an old lady and I bought into the "values based" buzz word, but I really wish we'd look at our behavior and actions and have a critical eye and own our contributions to how we're viewed and what our purpose as organizations are, and how it conflicts and mimics college and young culture as a whole.

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by VandalSquirrel

I think that our schools are different, and that's the issue here. I know there are parties where women are taken off campus as a group after sorority bid day but before fraternity bid day, and the point is to have alcohol, and it always happens off campus. Women go, even if they don't drink, because they want to be part of the group and everyone else is going. Trying to get home is difficult because you are new on campus, even if you're a sober driver, and so there's a pressure to be with the group even if one isn't drinking. There are very few 17 & 18 year old women who can say they don't want to drink or go, and I find it ridiculous that we have to do this right off the bat. (As a complete aside I don't think we should be "teach people to drink" because there are a lot of opportunities for experimentation and we should work on helping people adjust and feel comfortable, and I'm a huge fan of delayed recruitment and not living in the chapter facility right off the bat.)

The norm here is for a fraternity to have a camping trip for their bid day and women are going to this, off campus. New members are leaving campus, there's alcohol involved, and I wish we weren't creating/supporting risk management situations for people who haven't attended class yet and we are their whole world. Not to say things can't happen at an on campus party, but at least women could walk home and be able to get away from a situation that they don't want to be in. I know there are some men who are new members who are uncomfortable joining and right away girls and booze but they talk about it less because of their own gender/fraternity culture.

Maybe I'm an old lady and I bought into the "values based" buzz word, but I really wish we'd look at our behavior and actions and have a critical eye and own our contributions to how we're viewed and what our purpose as organizations are, and how it conflicts and mimics college and young culture as a whole.

True, because our recruitment is usually a couple of weeks after school starts, and the campus atmosphere isn't Greek/party oriented. You're far less likely to feel like you have to drink to fit in from the start due to the student population itself. And when I said I'm glad my chapter had a mix and didn't end up with a drinking-focus, I didn't mean to imply that isn't the case for the other chapters on campus, because it is. Generally speaking we all have friends across organizations and they all seem to have that same mix. We also have a chance to make friends prior to recruitment and experience a mix of social activities. I'm sure it would be very different if recruitment was held before school and freshmen hadn't yet been exposed to what other social activities the campus had to offer. It's also a small campus and the only two fraternity houses are within easy walking distance of the dorms, as are the only two bars. I do recognize that it's a more laid back atmosphere for these reasons and not just due to the Greeks themselves.

But even on campuses where recruitment is before school and the student population is party oriented if just a few sisters in the chapter that didn't drink (or just chose not to that night) were there to hang out with the new girls, they could see that they can still have fun. And everyone can get home safe.

Originally Posted by Drolefille

One's illegal, one's not.

One's probably specifically prohibited by hazing regulations/laws/restrictions whatever, one's probably not.

If you told her/ gave her the impression/ pressured her with the idea that she wouldn't be accepted by the sorority if she didn't finish running. And there were 10 actives standing around her saying the same thing. Yeah at some point you're hazing. Your assumption is that she wanted to drink and then lied about it later. Big assumption.

This^. It's a very big assumption, and like many have pointed out, freshmen who are new on campus and have only this one group of friends aren't likely to extract themselves from that situation without giving in. And I don't blame them.