University of Colorado Question

[lenoxxx]

Guys,

I just read this article how all of the fraternities at UC Boulder voted to leave campus and go off campus since they felt the University was treating them unfairly and not in their best interests, LCA has a chapter there with a large house.

Anyway my question is, will our chapter be allowed to be there as an independent off campus group? And if so, if any of our zeta's feel that they would be best served by severing ties to their respective campuses, can they do that if this is some sort of precedent?

I know at our campus and at many others that I have spoken with brothers over the years, many have felt that there was no benefit to dealing with a University any more on a practical level, and if this was now deemed acceptable, how many chapters would even want to deal with the Administration and in many cases rules that our obviously not in our chapters best interests anymore?

Here is the article
Lenoxxx


University of Colorado, Fraternities at odds on Recruitment
5/7/2005

Fraternities at CU-Boulder have refused to sign an agreement that would have
required them to defer rush until the spring semester, and as a result they
will be cut off from several campus services.

The agreement, developed in the six months after the alcohol-induced death
of Chi Psi fraternity pledge Lynn Gordon "Gordie" Bailey Jr. last September,
called on all Greek organizations to hold freshman recruiting activities, or
"rush," in the spring semester, not in the fall. UCB officials said the
delay would give freshmen more time to adjust to college life before
pledging a fraternity or sorority. The "registered fraternal organization
agreement" also requires Greek organizations to have a live-in advisor in
each chapter house, as well as alcohol-related and academic regulations.

All UCB sororities signed the agreement before the April 29 deadline but the
fraternities declined, citing the detrimental effects of deferring rush and,
to a lesser extent, the costs associated with hiring live-in advisors.

Interim UCB Chancellor Phil DiStefano and Vice Chancellor for Student
Affairs Ron Stump told S&GR they are disheartened by the fraternities'
decision, especially since fraternities flourish at several other
universities where rush is held exclusively in the spring. Stump noted that
while only 10 percent to 13 percent of UCB students are members of
fraternities or sororities, about half of the student body belongs to a
fraternity or sorority at Vanderbilt University, where rush is held in the
spring. Stump also lamented that UCB fraternity leaders "just really shut
down" during the negotiations and referred him to an official with the
North-American Interfraternity Conference, based in Indianapolis.

Ryan Lynch, internal vice president of the UCB Interfraternity Council
(IFC), called the deferral of rush "the one point that there was a complete
stalemate on" in negotiations with campus officials. He acknowledged that
the administration had originally called for rush to be held in the fall of
students' sophomore year, and later agreed to allow it as early as spring
semester for freshmen. But Lynch said the 15 UCB fraternities recruit the
vast majority of their new members during the fall of the student's freshman
year, and any deviation from that would cause membership declines that could
threaten some -- if not all -- of the chapters' existence. "We want to be
affiliated with the university, but not at the cost of the Greek system," he
said. "We're not going to risk losing it to be associated with the
university."

Lynch said the fraternities offered to delay rush by a month or two in the
fall, but that was the most they could budge, and UCB officials did not back
down from requiring a spring rush.

By the spring semester, most freshmen have already established a core group
of friends, Lynch said, which contributes to much lower recruitment numbers
for spring than for fall rushes. In addition, he said, by spring most
freshmen have already signed long-term housing leases and would not be able
to commit to living in a chapter house for a period of time, as some
fraternities require.

DiStefano said, however, that since most students start looking for housing
in February or March, UCB officials felt that having rush during the week
before spring classes begin would not preclude students from adjusting their
housing plans.

"What [the fraternities are] saying is, `If students look at other
organizations, they will not join the Greeks,' " Stump said. "If the
fraternities really have something to offer, students will wait."

Lynch added that the cost of paying a live-in advisor would be prohibitive
for small chapters, and some fraternity members said they don't have enough
space to provide housing to an advisor. He noted, however, that four UCB
fraternities are planning to have live-in advisors starting next fall, even
though they turned down the agreement with the UCB administration.

Since they did not sign that agreement, campus officials said, fraternities
will no longer receive office space or an advisor for IFC, use of campus Web
resources, inclusion of their materials and presentations in student
orientation activities, a list of prospective student members or GPA
information on members.

"I'm certainly disappointed that the fraternities didn't want to sign the
agreement," DiStefano said this week. "But that's their choice, and they
will have to live with the consequences of not having some of the services
we normally provide."

"It's disappointing, but it's not going to be extremely detrimental to our
operations," Lynch said of the loss of campus services. "It's upsetting,
because they're trying to make us feel like we're not part of the
university." He explained that while IFC will have to pay for a new office
and advisor, it already has its own Web site on a non-campus server, it can
obtain student contact information through an open-records request and it
can rely on members to provide information on their own GPAs.

Lynch challenged the notion that the fraternities will degenerate without a
formal connection to the campus. "A lot of people want to paint an `Animal
House' scenario, where we are disassociated with the university and lose
control," he said, noting that IFC will simply take a stronger leadership
role in enforcing policies. "To think we would lose control over our houses
is just absurd," he said. The IFC has strict rules banning the use of
alcohol in rush activities, Lynch said. He cited fraternities at the
University of Washington as an example of Greek organizations that prospered
-- even academically -- after separating from the institution. "Although
we're not directly affiliated with the university, our philanthropic efforts
will continue," Lynch said. "We're not going to stop giving back to the
community and the university."

[lenoxxx]

Ok Im replying to my own reply, but does this mean if my campus has deferred rush now and our chapter thinks it isnt fair do we have the right to leave campus and have nationals recognize us, or am I just misreading this article?

Lenoxxx

Daily Camera
Boulder CO
April 28, 2005

Frats reject CU plan

Decision will cost organizations access to campus amenities

By Ryan Morgan, Camera Staff Writer

The University of Colorado's 16 fraternities have rejected a set of
requirements the school has asked each Greek organization to sign, its leaders announced Wednesday.

That means CU won't officially recognize the fraternities next year.

The Registered Fraternal Organization Agreement was drawn up in the wake of the alcohol-related death of Chi Psi pledge Lynn Gordon "Gordie" Bailey Jr. last semester and is aimed at keeping students from drinking irresponsibly.

John Williamson, the executive vice president of the North American Interfraternity Conference, which represents CU's fraternities, said his group and the administration share the same goals.

"We agree on almost everything," Williamson said Wednesday. "That's the most disappointing thing about this."

But the document CU wanted the fraternities to sign had two sticking points, Williamson said. It would require fraternities to have live-in advisers, which would be a financial challenge for some groups, he said.

More importantly, the document would have delayed the traditional fall rush, the period in which fraternities sign up new pledges, until the spring, Williamson said.

He said it isn't fair to let every other social group sign members up
during the fall semester while telling people who want to join fraternities that they have to wait.

"Let's say you've got a 22-year-old individual who's just been discharged from the Marines or the Army or the Navy," Williamson said. "You're going to tell that Marine, who's just finished fighting for you in Afghanistan or Iraq, 'You can join any organization on campus, you can play on any sports team, but whatever you do, don't go near the fraternity.'"

But CU Vice Chancellor Ron Stump said delaying rush until the spring makes sense. Students who wait a few months are much more likely to have a better sense of which organization they want to join, he said.

"The way it is now, you are literally being rushed into making a decision," he said. "By having a semester under their belt, if something comes up during that rush program that they feel is going to be harmful for them, they have the ability to step back and say, 'I have other things I can do.'

"It gives them a little more maturity, which is pretty huge when you're a freshman."

That logic applies to veterans as well, Stump said.

"I'm not sure how many former Marines are going to want to join a fraternity with 18-year-old freshmen," he said. "I think that a Marine would have the self-discipline to understand that if I have to wait for something that's good for me, I can wait. That's what they're taught."

The fraternities' refusal to sign the document means they'll lose their access to amenities CU has typically provided, Stump said. Those include space on campus, the use of athletic fields, access to academic information and the services of the school's Greek liaison officer.

Williamson said he hopes his organization and the CU administration can still reach an agreement. Stump said that's a possibility _ within limits.

"We're not going to wait until the fall semester, after they've done rush, and have them say, 'OK, we're ready to sign the agreement,'" he said.

Boulder sororities have told CU's Greek Affairs Office that they will sign the agreement.

[RACooper]

Originally posted by lenoxxx
Guys,

I just read this article how all of the fraternities at UC Boulder voted to leave campus and go off campus since they felt the University was treating them unfairly and not in their best interests, LCA has a chapter there with a large house.

Anyway my question is, will our chapter be allowed to be there as an independent off campus group? And if so, if any of our zeta's feel that they would be best served by severing ties to their respective campuses, can they do that if this is some sort of precedent?

I know at our campus and at many others that I have spoken with brothers over the years, many have felt that there was no benefit to dealing with a University any more on a practical level, and if this was now deemed acceptable, how many chapters would even want to deal with the Administration and in many cases rules that our obviously not in our chapters best interests anymore?

Here is the article
Lenoxxx

Well in answer to the question the Toronto chapter (and all GLOs) have existed since 1960 as "independent" from the university - I won't mince words, but the severing of school support/recognition seriously impacted the overall strength of the greek system, with many GLOs not surviving the transition.... whether this was due to chapters not being able to adapt to the new reality of no school support, or whether due to the lack of support from their respective HQ's, I can't really say. I can say that chapters in this position are more in need of alumni, HQ, and community support (intra-fraternal)... to understand this look through any of the officer manuals and re-examine anything that refers to formal school involvement/support.

There is one major complication in the situation mentioned in the article however - the fact that the Sororities will remain affiliated with the school... I have no idea what, if any, further hurdles this will create for interactions between Fraternities and Sororities.

[lenoxxx]

I always laugh at the whole school support issue. I cannot even conceive of a university helping out fraternities outside of idle words.

At my Alma Mater, as an undergrad 10 years ago the University did nothing for the chapter, as an active alumni, I thought I might see thing differently, however it is exactly the same our U makes no real help available, no any assistance of any substance, there for to just "leave" would be of no real negative effect, and in effect would free us of the unfair and some would say unconstitutional rules they arbitrarily enforce.

Lenoxxx

[Tom Earp]

lenoxxx, a very interesting point that you brought up.

Granted that School Greek System was and is having problems.
Other than the total System, not only Greek being a strange thing to behold isnt it?

Now, while We may sit and surmise, I wonder what IHQ would think of this.

We seem to be a rudderless ship at times and have for some while.

Am I being negative at times, Yes I am. I wonder why.

Am I a True LXA, You Damn Bet You I am.

But as a Brother that has been around for many Years, then I feel I have a right to ask questions andhelp.

Have I gotten it, no, I havent. I then question what LXA is all about.

Now, am I wrong?

I dont need any Pattened answer, I need True answers.