More Americans Die of Poverty than Terrorism

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

I see this more as a socio-economic issue than as a pure race issue. Yes, I know that there are correlates, but I still think "someone who is used to receiving lower pay" would have been a better argument than "blacks who are used to getting low pay."

There's no such thing as a pure race issue. Race and socioeconomic status are highly correlated.

No, someone is generic and an attempt at political correctness and exaggerated inclusion. Whites who are used to lower pay are at an advantage to Blacks who are used to lower pay. Socioeconomic status does not have an equal effect on Blacks and whites. That's why Blacks are disproportionately of the lower socioeconomic status. That's why Blacks of the higher socioeconomic status are still racially profiled in lending and so forth. That's why whites have a higher level of social mobility than Blacks. While most people who were raised poor will remain poor, whites are more likely than Blacks to move up the social ladder as they age and if they acquire human capital and social capital. White privilege is one reason for that.

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

I try to be careful where I draw examples from when I'm having discussions because a large group of my friends are college+. I do have a lot of contact with "have nots," if you will, because of places I used to frequent and because of friends-of-friends. Even these folks have shared my sentiments because 1) it makes the work environment unacceptable and 2) they don't want to "help a person like that" make money.

Has their rhetoric ever translated into action? Ask them that next time. It sounds good in theory but theory without practice means nothing.

And1 let's think of minorities who have family responsibilities. If you have mouths to feed, a racist motherfucker is something you would rather deal with than having to deal with not being able to provide for your family.

And2 capitalists are capitalists. Most employees will never meet the Head Capitalist in Charge so they don't know WHO they are helping to make money. They may be blessed with a really nice manager (although there are plenty of nice racists) but unbeknownst to you the CEO is a complete racist asshole. His/Her board room antics, for example, aren't common knowledge among those on the lower end of the totem pole.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

There's no such thing as a pure race issue. Race and socioeconomic status are highly correlated.

No, someone is generic and an attempt at political correctness and exaggerated inclusion. Whites who are used to lower pay are at an advantage to Blacks who are used to lower pay. Socioeconomic status does not have an equal effect on Blacks and whites. That's why Blacks are disproportionately of the lower socioeconomic status. That's why Blacks of the higher socioeconomic status are still racially profiled in lending and so forth. That's why whites have a higher level of social mobility than Blacks. While most people who were raised poor will remain poor, whites are more likely than Blacks to move up the social ladder as they age and if they acquire human capital and social capital. White privilege is one reason for that.

I know all about white privilege and how it's impacted us (I assume this was informational for those who are lurking). I had an issue, though, because of this post:

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

Because a black person would work for less due to being traditionally disadvantaged, thus giving them a cost advantage.

I interpreted it as "blacks [in general] are used to lower wages." Even though I have worked for low wages, I wouldn't say I'm "used" to them. 1) I know I'm more valuable than that, 2) I know how working in an environment like that would negatively affect me, and 3) I have resources to pull myself up so that I don't have to "settle" into low wages. I'm sure the same could be said for several people in my position, black, white, or otherwise.

Has their rhetoric ever translated into action? Ask them that next time. It sounds good in theory but theory without practice means nothing.

And1 let's think of minorities who have family responsibilities. If you have mouths to feed, a racist motherfucker is something you would rather deal with than having to deal with not being able to provide for your family.

And2 capitalists are capitalists. Most employees will never meet the Head Capitalist in Charge so they don't know WHO they are helping to make money. They may be blessed with a really nice manager (although there are plenty of nice racists) but unbeknownst to you the CEO is a complete racist asshole. His/Her board room antics, for example, aren't common knowledge among those on the lower end of the totem pole.

I don't believe it has. And after all of my talk about not living in a vacuum

These points make sense.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

I know all about white privilege and how it's impacted us (I assume this was informational for those who are lurking). I had an issue, though, because of this post:

I interpreted it as "blacks [in general] are used to lower wages." Even though I have worked for low wages, I wouldn't say I'm "used" to them. 1) I know I'm more valuable than that, 2) I know how working in an environment like that would negatively affect me, and 3) I have resources to pull myself up so that I don't have to "settle" into low wages. I'm sure the same could be said for several people in my position, black, white, or otherwise.

No, it wasn't just informational for those who are lurking.

Elephant Walk was correct. Blacks are generally used to lower wages. As I always tell people, we can't have it both ways. We can't highlight disadvantage and then not want people to mention the disadvantage that we just highlighted. It's awesome if it doesn't apply to you because generalizations and trends aren't meant to apply 100%.

The bolded is really the point. And those resources aren't just "you" pulling yourself up. As for 1) and 2), a large percentage of the population is underpaid and miserable. Yet, many of them believe they are worth more and know how it negatively affects them. Unfortunately, most of those people will live the rest of their lives underpaid and miserable.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

No, it wasn't just informational for those who are lurking.

Elephant Walk was correct. Blacks are generally used to lower wages. As I always tell people, we can't have it both ways. We can't highlight disadvantage and then not want people to mention the disadvantage that we just highlighted. It's awesome if it doesn't apply to you because generalizations and trends aren't meant to apply 100%.

This is what I was getting at. Some blacks, some minorities, many non-whites, some people -- any of these would have been better than just plain blacks. I refuse to believe that the mere fact that someone is black causes him/her to "expect" to work for pennies.

The bolded is really the point. And those resources aren't just "you" pulling yourself up. As for 1) and 2), a large percentage of the population is underpaid and miserable. Yet, many of them believe they are worth more and know how it negatively affects them. Unfortunately, most of those people will live the rest of their lives underpaid and miserable.

I don't see "underpaid but comfortable" as equal to "being underpaid and not being able to buy the necessities." I know that I could get more than my current salary, but I'm still able to support myself comfortably so I deal with it. Removing the wage floor and expecting me work when I can't afford shelter, food, and clothing is different.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

This is what I was getting at. Some blacks, some minorities, many non-whites, some people -- any of these would have been better than just plain blacks. I refuse to believe that the mere fact that someone is black causes him/her to "expect" to work for pennies.

LOL. You are educated enough to understand generalization language when you read it. I only use "some" and "many" when I'm talking around people who may miss the overall point because they are focused on the fact that I didn't use "some" and "many." I'm sure you know that Elephant Walk isn't clueless enough to believe that ALL Blacks are underpaid (although Blacks tend to be underpaid in almost all professions in relation to their white counterparts) and ALL Blacks are accustomed to being underpaid.

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

I don't see "underpaid but comfortable" as equal to "being underpaid and not being able to buy the necessities." I know that I could get more than my current salary, but I'm still able to support myself comfortably so I deal with it. Removing the wage floor and expecting me work when I can't afford shelter, food, and clothing is different.

The average person who is underpaid is unable or barely able to buy the necessities. That's the point of this entire discussion. Many people can pay their bills but they don't have anything in the bank after they do that. Being poor is not just about being unable to pay the bills.

[Elephant Walk]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

I'm sure you know that Elephant Walk isn't clueless enough to believe that ALL Blacks are underpaid (although Blacks tend to be underpaid in almost all professions in relation to their white counterparts) and ALL Blacks are accustomed to being underpaid.

My discussion more relates to not any sort of "race-conscious" or anything as such, but more to statistical averages being that Blacks are generally less educated, generally more unemployed, and generally disadvantaged in other senses which gives them a cost-advantage. Clearly not every Black person is underpaid and many are overpaid (see: the person in the White House), but speaking in generalities and statistical averages.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

My discussion more relates to not any sort of "race-conscious" or anything as such

You think that highlighting race in such a topic isn't about race conciousness. How very white privilege of you to think that.

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

but more to statistical averages being that Blacks are generally less educated, generally more unemployed, and generally disadvantaged in other senses which gives them a cost-advantage. Clearly not every Black person is underpaid and many are overpaid (see: the person in the White House), but speaking in generalities and statistical averages.

Did you just feel like explaining yourself to someone who had already explained you?