Lavalier?

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by agzg

Right I guess I don't quite understand it. I'm not burning up inside to tell anyone anything about my ritual, in fact, I like that it's something I keep secret among sisters (except, of course, the things I let slip on GC, like wearing squirrel suits for initiation).

There are other secrets in life that one can share with a spouse. Like that hammertoe you've been dealing with since 11th grade.

LOL. I knew people who felt as though nothing should be kept from their significant other. These people stupidly had boyfriends or girlfriends help them study their pledge packets or allowed their spouse to read the ritual.

The rest of us are not that foolish. Even if our significant others know where our rituals are kept, and we know where our significant other's ritual is kept, no one bothers each other's rituals. Don't start none, won't be none.

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

LOL. I knew people who felt as though nothing should be kept from their significant other. These people stupidly had boyfriends or girlfriends help them study their pledge packets or allowed their spouse to read the ritual.

The rest of us are not that foolish. Even if our significant others know where our rituals are kept, and we know where our significant other's ritual is kept, no one bothers each other's rituals. Don't start none, won't be none.

One of my serious boyfriends was a greek and sometimes he would tell me what I thought was too much info. I'd tell him I don't WANT to know anything secret (though what he was sharing was never, ever ritual...just things that weren't exactly common knowledge on campus). My mom and dad never shared anything about each others' organizations either when it comes to secrets and I won't.

I have friends in other organizations that would share unsolicited information that I shouldn't have ever been privy too, even when I'd tell them, "This sounds like something I shouldn't know". I never reciprocated and it would irritate them.

[TSteven]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

LOL. I knew people who felt as though nothing should be kept from their significant other. These people stupidly had boyfriends or girlfriends help them study their pledge packets or allowed their spouse to read the ritual.

The rest of us are not that foolish. Even if our significant others know where our rituals are kept, and we know where our significant other's ritual is kept, no one bothers each other's rituals. Don't start none, won't be none.

Before I attended college, I helped my biological brothers (Sigma Chis) study for their pledge tests. When in college, I did the same with my freshman roommate and some high school friends who were in various sororities. But in all cases, the pledge manuals / books / information used could be read by non-members. No ritual.

Originally Posted by Alumiyum

One of my serious boyfriends was a greek and sometimes he would tell me what I thought was too much info. I'd tell him I don't WANT to know anything secret (though what he was sharing was never, ever ritual...just things that weren't exactly common knowledge on campus). My mom and dad never shared anything about each others' organizations either when it comes to secrets and I won't.

I have friends in other organizations that would share unsolicited information that I shouldn't have ever been privy too, even when I'd tell them, "This sounds like something I shouldn't know". I never reciprocated and it would irritate them.

When I was an undergrad, a few of us Sigs would be at a party with fellow Greeks and one of us would “accidently slip” with some “secrete” information. It was always bogus. Most often, it was done just to see how gullible people would be. And the ones who were often the most gullible were other Greeks.

Another fun thing to do at a party would be to start to act all nervous when someone would come up to us and say “I know what such-n-such means,” - and then proceed to tell us something incorrect. We would get a “holy crap” look on our faces as if they knew. My favorite thing to do at this point would be to over exaggerate my denial. "I swear that is not true." Which others interpreted as “He doth protest too much.”

I tried this once with my biological brothers – Sigma Chis – and the rest of our family (almost all are Greek) late one night during a family celebration. One of my brothers looked right at me and said “Your drunk. That isn’t what that stands for.” I was so busted!

The point is that sometimes, one may *think* they are hearing secrets/ritual but they may actually not.

[KD4Me]

I dated a Delt in college who tried to tell me that when they (Delts) got married, they "got" to tell their wives their ritual. He acted shocked when I told him that Kappa Delta does not allow that. I didn't buy the bit about DTD advocating sharing ritual, but I did wonder if it would be a short hop to "Well, we're pretty serious now, what does XYZ on your crest mean?"

I'm not suggesting that the OP's boyfriend has ulterior motives, just sharing that I heard something weird like that when I was in college, too. I never heard it from anyone, else, though. In retrospect, I should have asked his brothers about it, to see what they would have said about it!

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by TSteven

Before I attended college, I helped my biological brothers (Sigma Chis) study for their pledge tests. When in college, I did the same with my freshman roommate and some high school friends who were in various sororities. But in all cases, the pledge manuals / books / information used could be read by non-members. No ritual.

I'll take your word on that. I know that some GLOs have nonpublic information in their pledge packets--what would be the point of only testing "pledges" on info that the general public could access and know?

Anyway, generally speaking, I'm sorry to hear that someone in the prospective member period would let an outsider study with them.

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

I'll take your word on that. I know that some GLOs have nonpublic information in their pledge packets--what would be the point of testing "pledges" on info that the general public could access and know?

Anyway, generally speaking, I'm sorry to hear that someone in the prospective member period would let an outsider study with them.

IIRC there wasn't anything particularly "secret" in my new member manual, either. My pledge class always studied together and I don't think any of them let someone outside the chapter look at them, but the theory was that the majority of ritual was learned after initiation and therefore the information we were given prior wasn't super secret. I'd go look it up but it's in my closet in a box somewhere and I'm lazy.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Alumiyum

IIRC there wasn't anything particularly "secret" in my new member manual, either. My pledge class always studied together and I don't think any of them let someone outside the chapter look at them, but the theory was that the majority of ritual was learned after initiation and therefore the information we were given prior wasn't super secret. I'd go look it up but it's in my closet in a box somewhere and I'm lazy.

I don't know what "particularly secret" and "super secret" mean.

Either way, I'm sure there was a reason why you didn't treat your pledge material as you did material for one of your university's classes. You had study groups with your pledge class (that's how it's supposed to be, as far as I'm concerned) and not with your dorm mates.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

I don't know what "particularly secret" and "super secret" mean.

Either way, I'm sure there was a reason why you didn't treat your pledge material as you did material for one of your university's classes. You had study groups with your pledge class (that's how it's supposed to be, as far as I'm concerned) and not with your dorm mates.

Nothing in the AOII new member manual is secret. If it were, you'd run the risk of divulging information to women who might not end up getting intiatied into the fraternity. I didn't show my manual to anyone else because they wouldn't be interested, not because they couldn't see what was in it. A lot of the NPC groups now have their new member information on their webpages. Chi Omega has a huge amount of information for their new members easily accessible by nonmembers on their website. It's just basic history, etc. That being said, the new member programs are much more than just the manuals distributed to the sisters and the tests given on that material.

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

I don't know what "particularly secret" and "super secret" mean.

Either way, I'm sure there was a reason why you didn't treat your pledge material as you did material for one of your university's classes. You had study groups with your pledge class (that's how it's supposed to be, as far as I'm concerned) and not with your dorm mates.

I'm just saying there wasn't ritual in the pledge manual. It would never have occurred to me to share it with anyone since there's no reason they would be interested in the first place, but ritual wouldn't be at risk if I had.

IIRC it was history of the fraternity, some songs, the Greek alphabet, information on other NPC sororities, and basic information (colors, mascot, etc.) All things you can find on our website.

[agzg]

Originally Posted by Alumiyum

IIRC there wasn't anything particularly "secret" in my new member manual, either. My pledge class always studied together and I don't think any of them let someone outside the chapter look at them, but the theory was that the majority of ritual was learned after initiation and therefore the information we were given prior wasn't super secret. I'd go look it up but it's in my closet in a box somewhere and I'm lazy.

I haven't seen the newest books but this was true when I joined... we got an additional packet made by the chapter (with chapter-specific information) which was also not secret. I still have both of them, we used to re-use our books from class to class, but started getting new every time when I was NMC so I kept one of the old ones for myself.

I've heard the newest ones were flashy and fancy.

Why are we talking about New Member materials again?

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by agzg

I haven't seen the newest books but this was true when I joined... we got an additional packet made by the chapter (with chapter-specific information) which was also not secret. I still have both of them, we used to re-use our books from class to class, but started getting new every time when I was NMC so I kept one of the old ones for myself.

I've heard the newest ones were flashy and fancy.

Why are we talking about New Member materials again?

Yeah we also got copies of the by-laws and such, and I still have mine, it's just a pain to get to. I saw a new one recently. Way more flashy than mine.

No idea haha.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by agzg

Why are we talking about New Member materials again?

Because I referenced the stupidity of having an outsider read "pledge manuals" and help "pledges" to study.

My post can obviously only be applied to the GLOs that it applies to.

[MysticCat]

Thanks for the information, Kevin.

Originally Posted by DrPhil

I'll take your word on that. I know that some GLOs have nonpublic information in their pledge packets--what would be the point of only testing "pledges" on info that the general public could access and know?

Well, I could ask what's the point of testing students on history/algebra/biology/etc., since all those entail information that the general public has access to and can know? What's the point in professional exams when anyone can have access to the information on which the examination is based?

Yeah, I'm being a little facetious, but in our handbook for probationary members there's nothing secret. Probationary members are tested to make sure they know and understand what they're supposed to know and understand. Others can perhaps look the information up; members are supposed to know it.

We've had this discussion before -- in many orgs, while there may be an assumption that no one other than members will care about reading what's in the pledge manual, it's not considered a problem at all for "outsiders" to read it. Like TSteven noted with Sigma Chi, many orgs now have their pledge manuals online, where anyone can access them. I certainly would think it preferable for pledges to study together, but TSteven's story isn't the first I've heard of siblings or roommates helping a pledge study.

Just another example of how different orgs do things differently.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Well, I could ask what's the point of testing students on history/algebra/biology/etc., since all those entail information that the general public has access to and can know? What's the point in professional exams when anyone can have access to the information on which the examination is based?

If that's the same thing in your mind. Nevermind, you're being facetious. *sigh of relief*

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Yeah, I'm being a little facetious, but in our handbook for probationary members there's nothing secret. Probationary members are tested to make sure they know and understand what they're supposed to know and understand. Others can perhaps look the information up; members are supposed to know it.

Ummm...whatever your org has that nonmembers shouldn't have access to...apply my post to that. LOL. From Tulip86's post, I gather that NPHC orgs aren't the only GLOs that have both "pre-initiation" and "post-initiation" materials that outsiders should not access. And that's not just about "ritual."

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by TSteven

Before I attended college, I helped my biological brothers (Sigma Chis) study for their pledge tests. When in college, I did the same with my freshman roommate and some high school friends who were in various sororities. But in all cases, the pledge manuals / books / information used could be read by non-members. No ritual.



When I was an undergrad, a few of us Sigs would be at a party with fellow Greeks and one of us would “accidently slip” with some “secrete” information. It was always bogus. Most often, it was done just to see how gullible people would be. And the ones who were often the most gullible were other Greeks.

Another fun thing to do at a party would be to start to act all nervous when someone would come up to us and say “I know what such-n-such means,” - and then proceed to tell us something incorrect. We would get a “holy crap” look on our faces as if they knew. My favorite thing to do at this point would be to over exaggerate my denial. "I swear that is not true." Which others interpreted as “He doth protest too much.”

I tried this once with my biological brothers – Sigma Chis – and the rest of our family (almost all are Greek) late one night during a family celebration. One of my brothers looked right at me and said “Your drunk. That isn’t what that stands for.” I was so busted!

The point is that sometimes, one may *think* they are hearing secrets/ritual but they may actually not.

Oh this wasn't messing with me, this was legitimate secret spilling ranging from the inner workings of standards to chapter drama to a couple of ritual-related things that I now know are true. For example...I guess they just wanted to bitch about drama but they'd go straight into discussions about standards etc. with me being the only non XYZ present.