Religion?

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by ellebud

I AM GOING BACK TO ELEMENTARY SCHOOL AND TELL OFF MY FOURTH GRADE TEACHER!!!!!! She told me that my report on Joan of Arc (with my illustration of the the fleur de lis) was a French cross!!!!!! And a badge of Joan's courage and her faith!

I apologize. But Jewish girls didn't have a whole lot experience with crosses. (very red face.)

LOL. It's been a symbol of French nobility, and one used in religion particularly in France for a long time. New Orleans and St. Louis both use it pretty heavily because of that. But not as a cross

Nothing to apologize for.

[ellebud]

Lady Pi (back to our original subject): It does seem to me that your reading of religion/ritual/membership is meant to exclude those who don't share your religious views.

[Lady Pi]

I really didn't mean for it to come off that way. It's just that at my chapter we are a very religious group. There are many different religions in my chapter and probably some people who don't have a religion or believe in God, they just don't speak up much. But to me, personally, religion is a big part of my sorority. It's just my opinion, other people have different opinions and that's great, it doesn't make anyone right or wrong. That's one of the joys of being in a sorority, being around different people that you can still get along with and respect, no one wants to be in a sorority or world full of clones.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by Lady Pi

I really didn't mean for it to come off that way. It's just that at my chapter we are a very religious group. There are many different religions in my chapter and probably some people who don't have a religion or believe in God, they just don't speak up much. But to me, personally, religion is a big part of my sorority. It's just my opinion, other people have different opinions and that's great, it doesn't make anyone right or wrong. That's one of the joys of being in a sorority, being around different people that you can still get along with and respect, no one wants to be in a sorority or world full of clones.

And that's all fine. I get that this was ultimately what you were trying to say, but what you actually said was why multiple people jumped on you.
I mean, think about the people in your chapter who don't believe in God and if they had heard you say something similar. Wouldn't they feel like they were somehow wrong for being a member? (Or that you thought them such?) Just because you don't know who they are, doesn't mean they aren't present and hurt by those assumptions, nor that they don't deserve true respect, not just tolerance-as-long-as-they-don't-speak-up.

And this is true of all of our GLOs that openly accept members of all creeds or none.

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by Lady Pi

I really didn't mean for it to come off that way. It's just that at my chapter we are a very religious group. There are many different religions in my chapter and probably some people who don't have a religion or believe in God, they just don't speak up much. But to me, personally, religion is a big part of my sorority. It's just my opinion, other people have different opinions and that's great, it doesn't make anyone right or wrong. That's one of the joys of being in a sorority, being around different people that you can still get along with and respect, no one wants to be in a sorority or world full of clones.

Also...just have to say that some very religious people might not be keen on the idea of comparing holy communion with sorority ritual. Two very different animals there. Doesn't offend me, because I'm not one of these people, but I know that if I said that in front of my mother she'd have a cow.

[BluPhire]

This is funny because this can be directly related to the other side of religious folks not joining because some of the rituals can be seen as heretical.

At the end of the day you have to look at the org you are joining as something beyond the confines of the things that separate us.

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by BluPhire

This is funny because this can be directly related to the other side of religious folks not joining because some of the rituals can be seen as heretical.

At the end of the day you have to look at the org you are joining as something beyond the confines of the things that separate us.

Well said.

[ree-Xi]

Originally Posted by Lady Pi

Religion is a big part of many chapters and their sorority's rituals. Like every chapter meeting y'all pray together. Many rituals have heavy religious overtones. You just have to ask yourself if you can pledge your entire self to something that is heavily focused on God if you don't really believe in it. It could really offend some people if you participate in a ritual that you don't believe in. Of course you won't know until you go through it, and by then it's too late!

Go through Recruitment and feel it out. You can talk frankly with your Recruitment Counselor about such things and she will be able to give you a lot of insight about the campus sorority culture. those conversations are pretty confidential so don't be afraid to ask any questions that you may have.

I find it interesting that you prayed at every chapter meeting. Was this a Christian school?

I do not think that you are correct in your assertion that sororities in general are "heavily focused on God". What is your criteria for this? It's a pretty general statement that should be supported with evidence.

Originally Posted by Lady Pi

Some people think of it like taking communion at a church when you don't believe in God.

Sorority ritual is nothing like "taking communion". My membership in a sorority is not going to bring me salvation.

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by ree-Xi

I find it interesting that you prayed at every chapter meeting. Was this a Christian school?

I do not think that you are correct in your assertion that sororities in general are "heavily focused on God". What is your criteria for this? It's a pretty general statement that should be supported with evidence.



Sorority ritual is nothing like "taking communion". My membership in a sorority is not going to bring me salvation.

I will say my chapter had a "prayer request" prayer at every chapter meeting, and it is at a public school. However I don't remember it ever deviating from something like, "God, please remember all of these sisters and their prayers"...but it never really bothered me to sit quietly and listen, and no one ever said anything to me about the fact that I didn't bow my head, fold my hands, and close my eyes. I wasn't the only sister that did not directly participate. But I don't remember it being an issue for those that were not religious or those that were as long as everyone was respectful, and for the most part we all were (of religion anyway).

[Drolefille]

Re: Praying at chapter meetings. It's entirely possible that it's part of ritual too. I don't know how that works if there are non-ritual chapter meetings (informal vs formal chapter for example.)

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Re: Praying at chapter meetings. It's entirely possible that it's part of ritual too. I don't know how that works if there are non-ritual chapter meetings (informal vs formal chapter for example.)

For us it was purely something the chapter members wanted to do (or in the case of some of us, didn't object to), and not part of ritual. It was usually done at the end of chapter, and was sometimes skipped if the meeting was running too long.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by Alumiyum

For us it was purely something the chapter members wanted to do (or in the case of some of us, didn't object to), and not part of ritual. It was usually done at the end of chapter, and was sometimes skipped if the meeting was running too long.

Yes, I just meant that (in this case) ADPi might have some sort of ritual prayer. I don't know, just pointing it out as a possibility.

We've talked enough about religion on here to give the impression that religious texts and prayers may be used in multiple GLOs' rituals. I'm obviously not looking for confirmation, just raising the possibility that it wasn't exclusionary but was part of ritual. (Which kind of makes it exclusionary still, but it's what they signed up for, vs an optional thing.)

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Yes, I just meant that (in this case) ADPi might have some sort of ritual prayer. I don't know, just pointing it out as a possibility.

We've talked enough about religion on here to give the impression that religious texts and prayers may be used in multiple GLOs' rituals. I'm obviously not looking for confirmation, just raising the possibility that it wasn't exclusionary but was part of ritual. (Which kind of makes it exclusionary still, but it's what they signed up for, vs an optional thing.)

I was mostly clarifying to make sure no one thought I was revealing my organization's ritual but I probably should have added that.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Lady Pi

With all do respect, you don't know what happens in my ritual so you can't judge where it should be on my list of priorities or how closely it ties in with my religion.

By that same token, I presume you have no idea what happens in the rituals of other organizations, so you really have no idea to what degree, if any, religion plays a role in their rituals. You might want to steer clear, then, of generalizations like "religion plays a big role in many chapters and their sorority's rituals."

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito

Wait, the Fluer de Lis is a cross? I thought it was just a stylized flower.

As noted, it's a flower -- a lily, to be exact. Aside from being a symbol of French royalty, it's a traditional symbol of the Virgin Mary.

Originally Posted by Alumiyum

Also...just have to say that some very religious people might not be keen on the idea of comparing holy communion with sorority ritual. Two very different animals there. Doesn't offend me, because I'm not one of these people, but I know that if I said that in front of my mother she'd have a cow.

As a religious person, I agree. While I wouldn't have a cow, I would roll my eyes. I think it's an odd comparison.

Originally Posted by ree-Xi

I find it interesting that you prayed at every chapter meeting. Was this a Christian school?

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Re: Praying at chapter meetings. It's entirely possible that it's part of ritual too.

This. It is, of course, also possible that some chapters pray together in non-ritual situations.

I don't know about other organizations, but in my fraternity, probationary members are given information about what to expect ritual-wise. No details or secrets of course, but along the lines of the ritual not being a religious ceremony and that no man will be asked to do anything that would run counter to his personal religious beliefs. I think I have seen similar statements in information from other orgs. Seems like a good idea to me.

[ellebud]

Just on a lighter note ^^^: My teacher is getting closer and closer in her information! Gosh, it is good to know that she wasn't entirely off base.

Within my daughter's chapter there is a Bible study group. DD has no idea how many girls join. There are girls in Hillel (which is secular but Jewish based).