Feds to file lawsuit over Arizona immigration law

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by starang21

my point was that people commit crimes and break laws. that doesn't mean that the main problem is with the laws. it's about as valid as comparing speeding to immigration.

No. Really. She was drawing a contrast to show how society treats people who break different laws. Rather than making a comparison that it works one way with drugs so it must work that way with immigration.

But your comparison was more apt, perhaps, than you think. Society dehumanizes drug users, despite the fact that it's far more common and far less harmful, on the whole, than they think. But no, we have to fear the crackheads and protect the children and Just Say No. So instead of working on solving drug abuse we create reactionary laws that criminalize otherwise victimless crimes and cause their excessive financial burden, while putting the guy who smokes pot in prison with far more hardened criminals.

There's a problem with drug law. It's not deterring people from using drugs, it provides a black market here for the drug cartels to sell to, and it's costing us a lot of money.

Similarly there's a problem with our immigration law, it's not deterring people from crossing the border, it's created a black market, and continuing with harsher enforcement such as militarizing our border would cost a LOT of money.

In both cases "fixing" law would be better than doing more of the same.

[starang21]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

No. Really. She was drawing a contrast to show how society treats people who break different laws. Rather than making a comparison that it works one way with drugs so it must work that way with immigration.

But your comparison was more apt, perhaps, than you think. Society dehumanizes drug users, despite the fact that it's far more common and far less harmful, on the whole, than they think. But no, we have to fear the crackheads and protect the children and Just Say No. So instead of working on solving drug abuse we create reactionary laws that criminalize otherwise victimless crimes and cause their excessive financial burden, while putting the guy who smokes pot in prison with far more hardened criminals.

There's a problem with drug law. It's not deterring people from using drugs, it provides a black market here for the drug cartels to sell to, and it's costing us a lot of money.

Similarly there's a problem with our immigration law, it's not deterring people from crossing the border, it's created a black market, and continuing with harsher enforcement such as militarizing our border would cost a LOT of money.

In both cases "fixing" law would be better than doing more of the same.

nothing is going to deter people from crossing the border. as long as there are borders, folks will continue to cross is illegally. whether or not the process is easier. said "black market" will always exist because some people will attempt to circumvent the law. the problem is not with our immigration law, but with the people who circumvent it.

and i wonder if the families of drug users think that it's a victimless crime.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by starang21

nothing is going to deter people from crossing the border. as long as there are borders, folks will continue to cross is illegally. whether or not the process is easier. said "black market" will always exist because some people will attempt to circumvent the law. the problem is not with our immigration law, but with the people who circumvent it.

and i wonder if the families of drug users think that it's a victimless crime.

Hmmm....that Canadian-US border is just teaming with illegal crossings!

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Hmmm....that Canadian-US border is just teaming with illegal crossings!

It's how the 9/11 hijackers got into the US.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by AGDee

It's how the 9/11 hijackers got into the US.

Yeah, but that's not exactly what we're talking about. Terrorists can go across any border, but Canadians aren't sneaking across our border in droves because there isn't an incentive to do so. Their economy is as good as or better than ours, they don't have oppressive poverty driving people across the border looking for jobs to feed their families.

[starang21]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Hmmm....that Canadian-US border is just teaming with illegal crossings!

ssshhhh, there are illegal canadians here.

don't tell anyone.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by starang21

ssshhhh, there are illegal canadians here.

don't tell anyone.

Oh yeah, it's a huge problem...how bout we throw up a huge fence across the whole length of our border to take care of that problem?

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Oh yeah, it's a huge problem...how bout we throw up a huge fence across the whole length of our border to take care of that problem?

Funny thing, I was just listening to Anthony Bourdain's new book and he was talking about how he's sitting at an Irish pub. The bartender's Irish, overstayed his student visa, and continually games the system. Knows who to talk to, how to duck out of the country and back in on a new work or student visa at any given point in time. There was also a Mexican kitchen guy, also illegal. He doesn't have any of the benefits that the Irish guy does. No one's going to write letters for him, and he never gets enough money to play the games that the Irish guy does. No one's looking for Irish guy, but the Mexican guy lives in fear and is a much greater target for crime and abuse.

Anecdotal, sure, but raised the point well at least.

[starang21]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Oh yeah, it's a huge problem...how bout we throw up a huge fence across the whole length of our border to take care of that problem?

LOL. it's not big enough a problem.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by starang21

ssshhhh, there are illegal canadians here.

don't tell anyone.

Canadians and Europeans together only account for 6% of our illegal population.
http://pewhispanic.org/files/reports/44.pdf