How Moms Should Treat Their Legacy Daughters

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Low C Sharp

I don't have a dog in the race, I'm just curious: why not have a class of mostly legacies, if they are qualified? Is it a sense that this would impair the diversity of the class? Are chapters worried about being perceived as exclusive and unfair (would that really be a bad thing at SEC U?)?

I'm sure the Greek community and the Greek alumni at SEC U would have no problem with that bolded concept. It's the "outside world" (the non-Greek university administration, the damn hippie professors, the local media) whose hides tend to get chapped and who use it as another "why Greeks are bad elitist horrid people" example.

Also as df pointed out, it would kind of suck to feel like you don't have any say in who you take as your sister, or that your opinion is severely limited. But as (I think it was) LadyLonghorn pointed out in another thread, a lot of time these girls all know each other going into rush anyway.

[honeychile]

Originally Posted by Low C Sharp

Here's a hypothetical. Suppose that quota at SEC U is 75, and XYZ, an old, established group, has 80 legacy PNMs. Say that 10 of them genuinely don't meet the XYZ standard, and maybe 5, though qualified, can be expected to choose a different group at prefs. If XYZ keeps all the remaining legacies, that would be 65/75 in its pledge class. We often hear "We can't take them all" or "The whole class would be legacies!"

I don't have a dog in the race, I'm just curious: why not have a class of mostly legacies, if they are qualified? Is it a sense that this would impair the diversity of the class? Are chapters worried about being perceived as exclusive and unfair (would that really be a bad thing at SEC U?)?

Same question, part 2: what if XYZ is a low-to-middle group at SEC U? Then does it make sense to take a mostly-legacy class?

I would explain how this works (as both scenarios do happen often in the SEC), but it's membership selection information. Sorry!

[33girl]

Originally Posted by BeeBee23

I actually just read a TON of comments regarding this on the ADPi facebook page. Basically a bunch of moms are expressing their now "hate" for ADPi because their precious daughters were cut from the ADPi chapter during recruitment and no longer will support ADPi in any way and are demanding explanations. It's ridiculous! I think there is a huge generation gap going on and that mom's arent understanding (or remembering or refusing to remember) that membership selection cannot be told to them, and it's nothing against them or their daughter that they were cut.

Whoever runs the ADPi page politely responded with the "too many legacies to meet quota" only to be attacked by the moms saying it's a silly excuse.

I wish there was a way to help them understand about how the system works in today's times. ADPi has published articles regarding these issues, but moms seem to disregard it until their baby girl gets cut and then all hell breaks loose! It's just sad to see these grown women bashing their sorority and trying to encourage PNMs not to pledge ADPi because "legacies aren't treated fairly."

I just had to go check that out, and some of those moms obviously have no idea what "quota" and "total" are. Oh and the one whose daughter joined another group, and then dropped out? "We backed her 100% joining the other group" my foot.

That whole discussion needs to go on "Oh @$#* my mom joined Facebook" or whatever that site is called.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by 33girl

That whole discussion needs to go on "Oh @$#* my mom joined Facebook" or whatever that site is called.

I had to check this out.

Geez, you make an announcement about an elelctronic RIF or something inane and that's what it turns into?

One particular woman (the "my daughter had 15-20 recs" lady") makes me want to stab my eyeballs out everytime I read one of her comments.

[OHNOITSJESS]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

One particular woman (the "my daughter had 15-20 recs" lady") makes me want to stab my eyeballs out everytime I read one of her comments.

I agree. and I'm not familiar with the NPC and recs but isn't 15-20 recs a bit of overkill (i'm assuming she meant they were all ADPi recs)?
What about the "I just hope that they attend a college that the ADPi chapter is worth pledging!" lady? Way to disrespect your own sisters.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by 33girl

I just had to go check that out, and some of those moms obviously have no idea what "quota" and "total" are.

Yes.

Example:

"So many outstanding women go through and yet quota is set SO LOW that they have no chance at getting a bid."

Um, what?

I would really like to know where some of these people's kids go to school.

I mean, the whole "more legacies than spots" thing is really only present at a SMALL handful of schools.

I'd like to think that all of our orgs make a good effort to pledge legacies whenever possible.

If you were an ADPi alumna and you read this FB thread thing, you seriously would think that your daughter had no chance in hell of getting a bid to ADPi as a legacy (and that ADPi had some sort of secret vendetta against them). Sheesh.

[ree-Xi]

I've been doing some reading online about legacies being cut. I came across some very sad reactions from the moms whose legacy daughters were cut. (One of the pages referenced here came up in the search. Please note that I am not singling them out. I also found public pages with people from other sororities, and others that are in general college forums).

Needless to say, the sentiment is being echoed by alumnae of many sororities. Many of the women post stories about their legacy daughter being cut from from the legacy sorority or chapter. Many are vowing to stop all volunteer and financial support to the national organization. They share stories of how they are crushed they are (the moms), that the chapter dared to cut their daughters, many of whom are "amazing" and "accomplished."

(Let me say that I GET it. It's hard when all of your adult life, you dream about sharing your sisterhood with your daughter, only to have it fall apart. I'm not saying it's easy.)

Some moms insisted that legacies should always be offered bids, regardless of whether the girl "fit" the chapter, or that a legacy should always be chosen over a non-legacy even if the girl is lacking in grades/activities/etc.

One mom bemoaned the fact that collegiates are (paraphrased) too inexperienced and immature to be making decisions that they shouldn't be making, and that are not in the best interests of ABC. Someone else agreed, and said that today's chapters are "making their own rules and decisions".

Hmm...Isn't this the way that they themselves were chosen? By the members of the Chapter? Why was it okay then, but not now? Were they all legacies to start out with?

One mom said that when she was a PNM, she was a legacy. She told all the other sororities that she only wanted ABC and that they cut her. She muses as to what would have happened if ABC had cut her - she would be devastated because it meant that "no one wanted me".

Others suggested that the mom/grandmother contact nationals and insist that they know WHY their daughter was cut, that if enough people complain, it will make the nationals come down on the chapter because OBVIOUSLY, the chapter is doing SOMETHING wrong.

In several of these places, women have come forward to explain some of the reasons why legacies may be cut - purely from a logistical perspective - but the words seem to fall on deaf ears.

It's a tough situation all around but the bottom line is, you can't always get what you want. Why not make the best out of what you DO have? These moms are preventing their daughters from finding their own sources of happiness, whether it be through another chapter, or even if they don't become greek.

[AnchorAlumna]

Hmmm.....OK, if chapters are required to pledge legacies, can the legacies be required to accept only their legacy bid?

[kddani]

The facebook thread referenced earlier demonstrates the extreme lack of knowledge of many alumnae with regards to today's recruitment realities. It seems that most of our groups have tried to address it delicately in communications with alumnae, but many just don't get it. I think many just don't want to "get it" and would rather rant and rave.

I love the alumnae who spout off that they're no longer going to volunteer with the sorority or support it financially. I would hazard a guess that most of those complaining are not involved with their sorority on any level more than receiving the magazine a couple times a year and certainly not on a monetary level.

[MasTNX]

Do you think legacies should be given any special treatment at all? If it's a super competitive school and there aren't enough spots for all legacies much less everyone else, then should legacies be given any type of 'head start' like a Legacy Luncheon before recruitment? It would seem like an unfair advantage, but isn't just being a legacy an advantage that wasn't earned?

As for my daughter, the mom in me wants to say that I will hover. Before intake, I would want to know that she has made a good impression. During intake, I would want to know what is going on. After she emerges, I would want to know if she was representing the Sorority well. However, I know that none of that is particularly helpful to her or the chapter and I will need to fall back.

I understand the mom's heartbreak though. It's tough.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by kddani

The facebook thread referenced earlier demonstrates the extreme lack of knowledge of many alumnae with regards to today's recruitment realities. It seems that most of our groups have tried to address it delicately in communications with alumnae, but many just don't get it. I think many just don't want to "get it" and would rather rant and rave.

I love the alumnae who spout off that they're no longer going to volunteer with the sorority or support it financially. I would hazard a guess that most of those complaining are not involved with their sorority on any level more than receiving the magazine a couple times a year and certainly not on a monetary level.

I'll give them the benefit of the doubt that they may be very involved in their alumnae organizations as they said, but from experience with my alumnae chapter, most of the women have no idea what goes on in the collegiate chapters anymore. There is a disconnect between collegiate and alumnae activities, which is not necessarily a bad thing, but it makes it difficult to keep alumnae up to date with the realities of recruitment. One of the main problems with the "anecdotal" stories provided is that there is a lot of power associated with "my daughter and ALL the daughters of ALL my friends have been cut." It stirs up a lot of anger and fear, but provides very little real information for mothers to really know what the likelihood that their legacy will have difficulties at little public school in tiny town USA.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by MasTNX

Do you think legacies should be given any special treatment at all? If it's a super competitive school and there aren't enough spots for all legacies much less everyone else, then should legacies be given any type of 'head start' like a Legacy Luncheon before recruitment? It would seem like an unfair advantage, but isn't just being a legacy an advantage that wasn't earned?

As for my daughter, the mom in me wants to say that I will hover. Before intake, I would want to know that she has made a good impression. During intake, I would want to know what is going on. After she emerges, I would want to know if she was representing the Sorority well. However, I know that none of that is particularly helpful to her or the chapter and I will need to fall back.

I understand the mom's heartbreak though. It's tough.

Can't really do this with NPC.

[MasTNX]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Can't really do this with NPC.

I don't know a lot about NPC, but why wouldn't it work?

Confession: I think I got the idea from a Lifetime movie or something similar. The moms and daughters were all touring the house together, meeting all the current sisters, telling stories of their time in the house. I guess I'm a sucker for thinking it seemed realistic.

[honeychile]

I just read the entire Facebook article. Yes, there are some bitter alumnae, but of course they're not taking in the full picture.

One alumna posted an article from the Tri Delta Trident, and it really bears reading: Recruitment Demystified. There's a place to click to download the article - please read at least the first six pages (there are pictures, don't panic!) - it would be great to see this in every GLO magazine!

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by MasTNX

I don't know a lot about NPC, but why wouldn't it work?

Confession: I think I got the idea from a Lifetime movie or something similar. The moms and daughters were all touring the house together, meeting all the current sisters, telling stories of their time in the house. I guess I'm a sucker for thinking it seemed realistic.

It's considered dirty rushing. You're not really allowed to have contact from one sorority to the potential new members, legacies or not. It's possible to have a mother/daughter lunch or something, but not a chapter of actives with incoming freshmen or anything like that.

It's part of how we all work as part of the NPC, and keeps a chapter that has more resources (or alumnae in the area) from putting on events when other chapters might not be able to afford it, have the space for it etc. When it comes to recruitment we try to put ourselves on an even playing field.