Rushing again

[carnation]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

That's fine, i just think this was the wrong thread to make that stand in, particularly since you have actually made a thread on this topic.

And this OP was of the opinion (or expressed her opinion in such a way) that these groups were the latter. No matter what the truth is, such an opinion will limit her options. And particularly as a non-member she has no idea whether those groups just struggle for numbers and cut less, or whether they do take any and all comers.

If she (or any PNM) isn't happy with her options, that's ok. But I see little reason to encourage her to eliminate options in advance no matter what the reason. She wouldn't be the first PNM to have pre-conceived notions utterly shattered and find a home with a chapter she would never have thought would fit her.

Also, there has to be a balance between treating 18 year olds like kids and like adults. They're not always great at making decisions and can be more emotional, but they also can handle honesty and think critically.

I like it when PNMs find a new home where they never would've expected one, although I believe it's often obvious when a group is taking anyone (when I rushed, there were 2 groups who invited all rushees back to every party; bad move on that campus).

I like it when teens can accept constructive criticism (do I sound like a teacher?) In the case of this particular girl, those 2 groups may well be her only options, although I have seen PNMs have a much more successful rush the second time than the first for various and sometimes unexplainable reasons.

I don't like it when adults jump on a hurting PNM, snarling at her because she cut some groups. As I said, we aren't looking over their shoulders.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by carnation

I like it when PNMs find a new home where they never would've expected one, although I believe it's often obvious when a group is taking anyone (when I rushed, there were 2 groups who invited all rushees back to every party; bad move on that campus).

I like it when teens can accept constructive criticism (do I sound like a teacher?) In the case of this particular girl, those 2 groups may well be her only options, although I have seen PNMs have a much more successful rush the second time than the first for various and sometimes unexplainable reasons.

I don't like it when adults jump on a hurting PNM, snarling at her because she cut some groups. As I said, we aren't looking over their shoulders.

Since we have no way to know what her chances are with any group our best bet is to encourage her to keep her options open. It's the best and most positive advice even if it come at the expense of questioning her reasoning for excluding groups. During/post rush, we frequently encourage the openminded-ness but don't tend to second guess or be mean to a PNM who ends up withdrawing or cutting groups she's not feeling comfortable with. It's before rush when we try to correct that.

Even groups that are recommended to make no cuts under RFM still make cuts. Ones that don't, don't last. I don't think you actually know the health of the chapter unless you're a member and you probably don't have a good idea unless you're a member of another chapter on the same campus.

Honestly the only time I see GC turn into an unchecked pack of lions is when there are obvious inconsistencies in the story that leads us to believe we're being lied to and/or trolled. Taking the GatorKate example, people first questioned the inconsistencies, THEN after it turned out the story was nothing like what was claimed the tides turned. Then we got meangirl trolled and it turned out the whole thing was bait.

So really the best way to "make us nicer" would be for the trolls to stop their "sobstory PNM" baiting. And the "pile-ons" happen just as often due to taking a while to write a post and getting beaten to the bunch as they do because the OP responds to initial well meant criticism or concern with ignorance and sarcasm.

And I don't think being the "tone" police works well, nor the "embarrassed on behalf of ____ for your behavior" argument.

[carnation]

I really don't care if people don't like my comments about their tone or what bad representatives they are of Greek life. Some of your national offices know you by your screen names (and real names) and they aren't happy. Some GCers hone in on suffering PNMs like sharks to blood and I hope all this year's crop of PNMs will read this so they'll know they could be victims.

We do have trolls and actual PNMs who act awful. They're pretty obvious and the trolls, especially, deserve what they asked for. Whole different story from confused PNMs.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by carnation

I really don't care if people don't like my comments about their tone or what bad representatives they are of Greek life. Some of your national offices know you by your screen names (and real names) and they aren't happy. Some GCers hone in on suffering PNMs like sharks to blood and I hope all this year's crop of PNMs will read this so they'll know they could be victims.

We do have trolls and actual PNMs who act awful. They're pretty obvious and the trolls, especially, deserve what they asked for. Whole different story from confused PNMs.

And we treat the confused PNMs differently.

You can use the tone/embarrassment argument all you like, it's just a bad one. I'm not ashamed of what I write here. In fact, I went back and checked through my old posts and STILL not ashamed. I'm pretty comfortable. It's really not your place to be disappointed/angry/embarrassed on that.

Leave our behavior between us and our HQs.

[carnation]

Whatever.

[Blue Skies]

I agree with Carnation. A post-collegiate woman knows that sororities provide a wealth of connections and leadership opportunities that extend well past her relatively brief time in school.

But a young, 18 (19, 20-) year old girl is looking for friends. She's looking for a home. She wants to have fun. If she's gone back to a particular chapter three times or more, and she still hasn't found any friends or potential friends, I can't blame her for dropping the chapter or recruitment entirely.

I think where the advice "keep an open mind" comes in handiest is when a girl has gone back at least three times and still feels iffy about a chapter or just doesn't know.

I liked most of the chapters at my school when I went through recruitment. I even liked chapters that in retrospect were not a good fit for me, lol. And although I could point out some of the more popular chapters, I was largely unaware of tiers. Even if I had been aware, I don't think it would have mattered much. I was looking for a good fit.

There were two chapters that almost right from the beginning were a clear, "no." Yet I kept going back, giving them a chance. Both were strong national orgs.

Chapter A -- all of these girls that I met were in-state at a school that attracted many, many out of state kids, from all over the country. I had traveled thousands of miles to come to this school. This was worrisome, but not a deal-breaker. The deal-breaker was that the girls that I met had never traveled out of state, much less out of the country. I just felt that I didn't have much in common with them. In addition, I was quite sporty in college, and none of the girls that I met engaged in my (quite common) sport. No match. (This chapter folded some years later. This was not a surprise to me.)

Chapter B -- was somewhat more promising than Chapter A. They had absolutely the prettiest, most beautifully decorated house on campus -- a real showplace. They were a smaller chapter, so they had to double- and triple-rush at times. This confused me, clueless rushee that I was, but it wasn't a deal-breaker. There was one girl that I liked -- I wasn't sure if she was BFF material, but I liked her. There was also one distinctly odd girl, with very stare-y eyes, who spoke as if she were talking from a million miles away, along with a few others who seemed "off." Collectively, they reminded me of a girl that I has met in high school who was a member of a fringe religious group. Just off. Also, they brought out an elderly alumna who sang one of their songs with them. With the benefit of hindsight, I think this was an incredibly sweet thing. As a young girl, I just didn't get it. I wasn't going through rush to hang out with my mom! No match. (This group went through many tough years, but eventually turned into a strong chapter. I could see the positives even as a rushee, so this wasn't a surprise to me. I just didn't feel a match with the chapter as it was at the time.)

So, if I were to give advice to young PNM's...it would be to make a commitment to yourself to see the process through to prefs. If you're feeling iffy about a chapter (no strong feelings about it one way or the other,) that's a chapter that you really should take a close look at and give a chance. But if you are still finding a chapter a clear "no" after prefs, there's no shame in not signing your bid card. You will find your friends elsewhere.

[Barbie's_Rush]

Why do some greekchatters who feel compelled to tell us what meanies we are assume that everyone is some old alumna?

Some people are so out of touch with the reality of membership selection today, and I don't care if you are able to sit in with a chapter you advise or have daughters who tell you things or whatever. Plenty of stuff goes on behind the scenes that you will never ever see.

I think it does a disservice to tell pnms, particularly the ones re-rushing, that "yay! just make friends, join some clubs and bring your grades up and you can totally have another chance with your dreamy top tier chapter!" Unless you are at Wazoo Non-competitive U and went into your first recruitment with a 1.2 gpa, smelling of rotten diapers and acting like a deaf mute during parties, this is most likely not true. In 99.9% of the cases, your second recruitment is going to be less successful than your first one and you need to know that going in. Blowing alumna sunshine up people's butts about how things "should" be is not going to change it.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Blue Skies

But a young, 18 (19, 20-) year old girl is looking for friends. She's looking for a home. She wants to have fun. If she's gone back to a particular chapter three times or more, and she still hasn't found any friends or potential friends, I can't blame her for dropping the chapter or recruitment entirely.

I think where the advice "keep an open mind" comes in handiest is when a girl has gone back at least three times and still feels iffy about a chapter or just doesn't know.

My point is I don't think she was trying to begin with. I think she went into rush with the "ABC and XYZ take everyone" stereotype firmly planted in her brain and didn't bother to find out if the "everyone" they took included people that she would truly like and love as sisters. And even when she said "I'll keep an open mind if I go through again!" she persisted in repeating the stereotype in her posts.

wow! I missed a lot of posts while gone.

I understand the negativity that some girls feel towards me and what I have stated but I never said that I was not personally offended. I do feel as if some people have been frank, which is great-I need to hear the truth. But I also feel as if some people have been down right rude.
I did state that if I went through rush again, I would go into it with an open mind and like someone said, chapters can change through the pledge classes. However, I do not take back that the two sororities will take anyone. They have the most girls coming to their houses during rush because they do not cut anyone and they have the biggest pledge classes. I of course do not know why they do that but that is NOT the reason I, in the past, did not feel as if it were a right fit for me.

Why should I have taken a bid from a sorority where I most likely would not have felt comfortable? Yes, there is that chance that I would have loved it, but from the girls I know in the sororities and from rush week I do not feel it would have been a good fit for me just as the other sororities who dropped me thought that I would not have been a good fit for them at that time.

I like constructive, honest, criticism, and telling me I sound stuck up and pointing out why so I can fix that is fine. But I came here for your personal opinions and advice and I thank you for that, but I do not need to be harassed via the internet for the decisions I have made in the past.

However, I do have to thank everyone for responding because, although some posts may be against me and whatever I have done/choose to do, they will help me make my decision with everything you all have said to me in mind.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by I_Wish

However, I do not take back that the two sororities will take anyone. They have the most girls coming to their houses during rush because they do not cut anyone and they have the biggest pledge classes.

You are really, really digging a hole here. You know NOTHING about the membership selection policies of these groups, and I would like you to produce evidence that says they don't cut anyone. "All my friends got asked back" does not equal "they don't cut anyone."

Aaaaaand....the biggest pledge class is usually something to be proud of.

No one said you should have taken a bid from a group you hated. But you dropped out before even going to Pref night. That night changes a LOT of minds - just read the rush stories on here. It just seems like you didn't keep an open mind at all - like you didn't want to be a part of these two groups before rush even started.

But then again - if you would have been that miserable at pref, it's a good thing you weren't there to ruin the memories of the girls who DID want to be there. All we're trying to tell you is that unless you have become SUPER SUPER CLOSE (not waving hello or Facebook friends) with girls in one of the three sororities that cut you, they'll probably all 3 cut you again, and the other two groups will probably cut you too, since you've made it clear that you don't want to be there.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by carnation

Some of your national offices know you by your screen names (and real names) and they aren't happy.

"You know you've spent too much time on GC when" you say silly things like this. Are you bragging about having the inside scoop or was this meant as a warning?