Feds to file lawsuit over Arizona immigration law

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito

Such as?

Other observations or evidence seen by the officer that gives him probable cause to believe the person is or has committed a crime.

I myself can't list direct examples because it's not that simple or clear-cut, we wouldn't need a court system if it was. You have to look at the totality of the circumstances of each arrest.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

Other observations or evidence seen by the officer that gives him probable cause to believe the person is or has committed a crime.

Our point is that the things that some people might consider probable cause would in fact be motivated by racist and classist biases. Therefore making them poor policing methods and violating civil (and human) rights of individuals regardless of their immigration status.

[starang21]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Our point is that the things that some people might consider probable cause would in fact be motivated by racist and classist biases. Therefore making them poor policing methods and violating civil (and human) rights of individuals regardless of their immigration status.

i think anything can be perceived as classist and racist if that's your aim. if one is committing another violation, is stopped, doesn't have ID and can't communicate, it's hard to dispute that there isn't probably cause.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by starang21

i think anything can be perceived as classist and racist if that's your aim. if one is committing another violation, is stopped, doesn't have ID and can't communicate, it's hard to dispute that there isn't probably cause.

To me it's not really about what happens after you're pulled over. It's why you get pulled over. That's my issue.

And just because some people don't see classism or racism doesn't mean it isn't present.

[starang21]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

To me it's not really about what happens after you're pulled over. It's why you get pulled over. That's my issue.

And just because some people don't see classism or racism doesn't mean it isn't present.

and conversely if (some) folks see it, it doesn't mean it's there.

in order to get pulled over, you have to be breaking another ordnance, per HB2162. granted, that can be as silly as a broken tail light. but people get pulled over for that all the time. the only thing changing is the checking of immigration status if there's probable cause. which in certain areas, can often be very high.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by starang21

and conversely if (some) folks see it, it doesn't mean it's there.

in order to get pulled over, you have to be breaking another ordnance, per HB2162. granted, that can be as silly as a broken tail light. but people get pulled over for that all the time. the only thing changing is the checking of immigration status if there's probable cause. which in certain areas, can often be very high.

If I were assured no one would be pulled over inappropriately I might feel different about that part of the law.

But it's a bad law. Too much gray area. Too open for interpretation. I'll wait and see how the court case pans out from here.

[starang21]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

If I were assured no one would be pulled over inappropriately I might feel different about that part of the law.

But it's a bad law. Too much gray area. Too open for interpretation. I'll wait and see how the court case pans out from here.

to be honest, i think that's an impossibility. the criminal justice system is still run by people, who have their own personal biases. and it apprehends people who have their own personal biases.

SB1070 was poorly written, however IMO, HB2162 clears up much of the gray area.