Feds to file lawsuit over Arizona immigration law

[Kevin]

It doesn't have to. Correlation doesn't have to definitely mean the crime is afoot, it just has to lead to a reasonable suspicion. If you've encountered someone who doesn't speak English and doesn't have identification or insurance, you definitely can have the reasonable belief that this person is illegal and can investigate whether they are.

[DaemonSeid]

Kids....just remember a Hispanic man who was robbed of his things who can't speak Ingrish is probably an illegal!!! ;-)

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

Kids....just remember a Hispanic man who was robbed of his things who can't speak Ingrish is probably an illegal!!! ;-)

No ID and no English? Yeah, that'd probably be enough.

[Psi U MC Vito]

Such as?

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito

Such as?

Other observations or evidence seen by the officer that gives him probable cause to believe the person is or has committed a crime.

I myself can't list direct examples because it's not that simple or clear-cut, we wouldn't need a court system if it was. You have to look at the totality of the circumstances of each arrest.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

Other observations or evidence seen by the officer that gives him probable cause to believe the person is or has committed a crime.

Our point is that the things that some people might consider probable cause would in fact be motivated by racist and classist biases. Therefore making them poor policing methods and violating civil (and human) rights of individuals regardless of their immigration status.

[starang21]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Our point is that the things that some people might consider probable cause would in fact be motivated by racist and classist biases. Therefore making them poor policing methods and violating civil (and human) rights of individuals regardless of their immigration status.

i think anything can be perceived as classist and racist if that's your aim. if one is committing another violation, is stopped, doesn't have ID and can't communicate, it's hard to dispute that there isn't probably cause.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by starang21

i think anything can be perceived as classist and racist if that's your aim. if one is committing another violation, is stopped, doesn't have ID and can't communicate, it's hard to dispute that there isn't probably cause.

To me it's not really about what happens after you're pulled over. It's why you get pulled over. That's my issue.

And just because some people don't see classism or racism doesn't mean it isn't present.

[AnchorAlum]

I don't know. When Mexico sends home those who are caught coming over their southern border, is that how they define it? Or are they just enforcing their sovereign rights to maintain their own border?

[starang21]

Originally Posted by AnchorAlum

I don't know. When Mexico sends home those who are caught coming over their southern border, is that how they define it? Or are they just enforcing their sovereign rights to maintain their own border?

combination of the two?

[DaemonSeid]

Feds bans critical parts of arizona's immigration law

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100728/...na_immigration

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

Federal court bans critical parts of arizona's immigration law

FIFY.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

FIFY.

thx...was out on iPad.

[DaemonSeid]

National Crime Report numbers for Arizona

if true, would really make you wonder what the real motivating factor is for the new law.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

National Crime Report numbers for Arizona

if true, would really make you wonder what the real motivating factor is for the new law.

I thought this deserved to be posted from your link:

The facts on crime in Arizona

• Violent crimes in Arizona are down by 15 percent since 2006: The FBI’s preliminary Uniform Crime Report, or UCR, for 2009 shows that violent crime—murder, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault—is down in Arizona for the third year in a row. The absolute number of violent crimes in 2006 was 30,916 in Arizona. By 2009 it had dropped by 15 percent to 26,094.
• Per-capita violent crime rate dropped by 22 percent: Factoring in the change in Arizona’s population, the rate of violent crime per 100,000 persons in 2009 was 390.5, which is a 22 percent decrease from 501.4 per 100,000 in 2006. For comparison’s sake, the violent crime rate in nonborder states such as Georgia and Florida was 410.6 and 604.9 respectively in 2009.
• Arizona’s violent and property crime rate drop was twice the national average: Nationally, violent and property crimes were down between 2008 and 2009, but Arizona saw rates of decline more than double that. The nation as a whole saw a -5.5 percent change in violent crime and -4.9 percent change in property crime from 2008 to 2009, but Arizona experienced a percent change of -11.1 in the former and -12 in the latter in this same time period.
• Kidnappings are tied to Mexico’s organized crime syndicate, not innocent Americans: It’s clear that Arizona has an organized crime problem, with 267 kidnappings in 2009 in Phoenix alone. But the kidnappings most often occur when human smugglers—who are usually part of Mexican drug cartels—demand more money for their services. As Phoenix police Sgt. Tommy Thompson said, “We’re talking about the kidnapping of smugglers and associates. I have no fear that my kids or grandkids will be victims.” This means that our efforts must be directed toward two fronts: fixing our broken immigration system so that people can immigrate legally with visas and not illegally with smugglers, and helping to resolve the deadly war on drugs in Mexico.

A safer southwest border

• Border cities are among the nation’s safest: Phoenix and other large border (and near-border) cities have some of the nation’s lowest crime rates, including San Diego, El Paso, and Austin.
• Border counties have low violent crime rates: Counties along the southwest border have some of the lowest rates of violent crime per capita in the nation. Their rates have dropped by more than 30 percent since the 1990s.
• There’s no evidence of “spillover” of violence from Mexico: El Paso, Texas, has three bridges leading directly into Ciudad Juarez, Mexico, a city which has suffered a significant percentage of the national death toll brought on by the Mexican war on drug cartels, which approaches 23,000 today. El Paso experienced only 12 murders in 2009, which was actually down from 17 in 2008. San Diego, California saw 41 murders in 2009, down from 55 in 2008, and Tucson, Arizona experienced 35 in 2009, a significant decrease from the 65 murders committed in 2008. Claims of spillover violence are clearly overblown.
• High-immigrant cities are safer: Christopher Dickey, Paris bureau chief and Middle East regional editor for Newsweek, points out that, “San Antonio saw violent crime drop from 9,699 incidents to 7,844; murders from 116 to 99. Compare that with a city like Detroit, which is a little bigger than El Paso and much smaller than San Antonio—and not exactly a magnet for job-seeking immigrants. Its murder rate went up from 323 in 2008 to 361 in 2009.” This recent pattern falls right in line with the calculations of Tim Wadsworth, sociologist from the University of Colorado at Boulder. In Wadsworth’s recent study he concludes that “cities with the largest increases in immigration between 1990 and 2000 experienced the largest decreases in homicide and robbery during the same time period.”

Arizona law undermines community safety

• Civilian cooperation will decrease: A delegation of police chiefs from major cities in Arizona and across the country met on May 26 with Attorney General Eric Holder to make clear they opposed the Arizona law because it would hurt local law enforcement efforts. As Los Angeles Police Chief Charlie Beck said following the meeting, “This is not a law that increases public safety. This is a bill that makes it much harder for us to do our jobs...crime will go up if this becomes law in Arizona or in any other state.” That’s because police need full cooperation from residents—legal and otherwise—in order to solve and prevent crime.
• Immigrant communities will be marginalized: Arizona’s new law will “drive a wedge between some communities and law enforcement” instead of reducing crime, argues Rob Davis, police chief of San Jose, California. It will erode the mutual trust and cooperation that police have worked to develop and maintain with immigrant communities throughout the years and instead alienate these communities.
• Resources will be diverted from fighting serious crime: Police resources in Arizona will be taken away from serious crime investigations and redirected to questioning the legal status of otherwise lawful individuals. That’s why the Arizona Association of Chiefs of Police opposes S.B. 1070. “We are stretched very thin right now. We don't have enough resources to continue to do this and to take on another responsibility,” said Josh Harris, head of the association.

After being here for two months, Phoenix is a very clean, safe city. I feel much more safe here than I did in Baltimore.