Feds to file lawsuit over Arizona immigration law

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by starang21

unfortunately, i bet this is the only action that we'll see out of the feds. i think the AZ government did this to force the fed's hand.

I think so, but it's like biting off your nose to spite your face.

[AOII Angel]

I don't know if I believe you can't get an AZ license as an illegal immigrant. There were some suspicious looking people getting licenses when I got mine. All I had to do was show my MD license (which incidentally gave out licenses to illegal immigrants) and a copy of my insurance card to get my AZ license. I didn't even have to show proof of my current address. Crazy! AND, my license doesn't expire until 2040!

[Kevin]

Do your numbers not contemplate the existence of probable cause to initiate a search at those traffic stops? You assume race is at the top of the list. Yet you do that without any evidence of that. Just a bunch of assumption.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Do your numbers not contemplate the existence of probable cause to initiate a search at those traffic stops? You assume race is at the top of the list. Yet you do that without any evidence of that. Just a bunch of assumption.

I had my numbers wrong, here's a quote on the article based on the 2008 report

In response to complaints about racial profiling by police, law enforcement agencies in Illinois have been required to report on traffic stops since 2004. Every year, the report has found that minority drivers are asked to consent to unwarranted searches at a higher rate than whites, but that police are actually more likely to find contraband in consent searches with white drivers than minorities. The 2008 Traffic Stop Study annual report, released earlier this month, is no different.

The study found that minority drivers were 13% more likely to be stopped than whites, with blacks slightly more likely than Hispanics to be stopped. Blacks were three times more likely to be asked to consent to a search than whites; for Hispanics, that figure was 2.4 times. But contraband was found in only 15.4% of searches of minority-driven vehicles, compared to 24.7% of those with white drivers.

Here's the IDoT website

So the other answer is that minorities "look guiltier" but are more innocent. Which means the cops have a skewed idea of what "looking guilty" means, and it drives down racial lines in some way or another.

Illinois officers have to report the race of everyone they stop and the result of the stop, verbal warning, written warning, ticket, etc. Even after they get the numbers back every year, there doesn't appear to be much of a change in them.

[starang21]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

I had my numbers wrong, here's a quote on the article based on the 2008 report


Here's the IDoT website

So the other answer is that minorities "look guiltier" but are more innocent. Which means the cops have a skewed idea of what "looking guilty" means, and it drives down racial lines in some way or another.

Illinois officers have to report the race of everyone they stop and the result of the stop, verbal warning, written warning, ticket, etc. Even after they get the numbers back every year, there doesn't appear to be much of a change in them.

ok, rounding this back to illegal immigration....

approximately 81 percent of illegal immigrants are of hispanic descent.

and of that 81 percent, almost 75 percent are from mexico.

meaning that approximately 7 million of the 12-13 million illegals in this country are from mexico.

http://pewhispanic.org/files/reports/61.pdf

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by starang21

ok, rounding this back to illegal immigration....

approximately 81 percent of illegal immigrants are of hispanic descent.

and of that 81 percent, almost 75 percent are from mexico.

meaning that approximately 7 million of the 12-13 million illegals in this country are from mexico.

http://pewhispanic.org/files/reports/61.pdf

And while being hispanic is not probable cause, speaking only Spanish would be probably get you there.

[Psi U MC Vito]

Originally Posted by Kevin

And while being hispanic is not probable cause, speaking only Spanish would be probably get you there.

Why? A lot of Puerto Ricans for instance can't speak English to save their lives. Also remember that the United States does NOT have an official language.

[starang21]

Originally Posted by Kevin

You assume race is at the top of the list.

i would venture to say that many folks believe that race is the sole thing on that list.

[DrPhil]

If a Filipino says it, it must be true.

[starang21]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

If a Filipino says it, it must be true.

^^^^^ knows the deal

[Psi U MC Vito]

Originally Posted by starang21

it can certainly fall under reasonable suspicion.


again, can't and won't aren't the same thing. and can't communicate well is way different from can't communicate at all.

hence in order to become a naturalized citizen, one must have basic skills in the english language. the same with getting a green card.

What about those who are born citizens but never learn English?

Also there are illegals who can speak English pretty decently. So your logic falls pretty flat.

[starang21]

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito

What about those who are born citizens but never learn English?

Also there are illegals who can speak English pretty decently. So your logic falls pretty flat.

you're talking about a miniscule sect of the population. an atomic bomb and a herd of elephants can also hit my house during a tornado, too.

sure. there illegals who can speak english. so quite possibly they may not be questioned. people get away with crimes all the time. that still doesn't mean we shouldn't pursue them. but then that goes back to their question, what about their id? unless they're traveling to a jurisdiction that gives out ids to illegals, then purposely traveling back to arizona. which is highly unlikely. about as likely as being a citizen who can't speak english.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by starang21

you're talking about a miniscule sect of the population. an atomic bomb and a herd of elephants can also hit my house during a tornado, too.

sure. there illegals who can speak english. so quite possibly they may not be questioned. people get away with crimes all the time. that still doesn't mean we shouldn't pursue them. but then that goes back to their question, what about their id? unless they're traveling to a jurisdiction that gives out ids to illegals, then purposely traveling back to arizona. which is highly unlikely. about as likely as being a citizen who can't speak english.

Oh man, don't get me started on Americans who can't speak English. As I learned during my brief flirtation with Orthodox Judaism, there are entire TOWNS!!!! of Hasidic Jews who speak very little, if any, English. They know basic commercial English but most of the time speak Yiddish and only Yiddish. There's no need for them to speak English, since they don't go in the mainstream world.

[starang21]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

Oh man, don't get me started on Americans who can't speak English. As I learned during my brief flirtation with Orthodox Judaism, there are entire TOWNS!!!! of Hasidic Jews who speak very little, if any, English. They know basic commercial English but most of the time speak Yiddish and only Yiddish. There's no need for them to speak English, since they don't go in the mainstream world.

can't =/= won't

[DaemonSeid]

That commonality doesn't mean it's correct.