After Several Years: What Do You Think of the New Release Figures?

[AOII Angel]

That's the problem with all of these "buts". They are all such small percentages that you just can't account for them when you are dealing with such large numbers of PNMs. So a girl might have gotten Tier 1 group to like her enough to offer a bid if she could have held on to party 3 in the old system, but that extra chance would have meant that 25 other women where led on for three parties and dropped groups that would have given them a bid just so that one girl could get her dream bid. The greater good says you let all 26 get released so that they all find spots in "lesser" chapters.

[Barbie's_Rush]

It doesn't matter if you make quota if only half your new members show up to bid day. The other new members see that. They also see how upset some of their new sisters are to be there on bid day when they do show up. The perception is always going to be there on competitive campuses with highly entrenched tier systems.

If you are an alumna who helps out with recruitment, thank you. But please understand that it doesn't make you an expert on what's actually happening at parties and in selection. The actives are the ones dealing with a lot of things and behaviors from pnms and their families that alumna are completely insulated from. The entitled princess pnm is very much alive and well.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by Barbie's_Rush

It doesn't matter if you make quota if only half your new members show up to bid day. The other new members see that. They also see how upset some of their new sisters are to be there on bid day when they do show up. The perception is always going to be there on competitive campuses with highly entrenched tier systems.

If you are an alumna who helps out with recruitment, thank you. But please understand that it doesn't make you an expert on what's actually happening at parties and in selection. The actives are the ones dealing with a lot of things and behaviors from pnms and their families that alumna are completely insulated from. The entitled princess pnm is very much alive and well.

I don't know who that's directed at, but I certainly do agree that there are lots of entitled princesses floating around. I also think that saying that RFM doesn't help anyone is overstating things too. On HIGHLY competitive campuses, you may have chapters who make quota but only half of the girls show up, but I venture to say that that is NOT the norm. I think that there are many weaker chapters out there that have really benefitted from this system. From my experience, though, the middle of the road chapters benefit the most from RFM with the largest classes. At Towson, which has a moderately competitive recrutement, the most "popular" groups have a harder time making quota because they cut those margins so close and fight for the same women, but the more inclusive groups are raking in large numbers of women who STAY. Another example of how every school is different so trying to make a generalized statement of the success of RFM is difficult.

[Barbie's_Rush]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

I don't know who that's directed at, but I certainly do agree that there are lots of entitled princesses floating around. I also think that saying that RFM doesn't help anyone is overstating things too. On HIGHLY competitive campuses, you may have chapters who make quota but only half of the girls show up, but I venture to say that that is NOT the norm. I think that there are many weaker chapters out there that have really benefitted from this system. From my experience, though, the middle of the road chapters benefit the most from RFM with the largest classes. At Towson, which has a moderately competitive recrutement, the most "popular" groups have a harder time making quota because they cut those margins so close and fight for the same women, but the more inclusive groups are raking in large numbers of women who STAY. Another example of how every school is different so trying to make a generalized statement of the success of RFM is difficult.

It wasn't directed at anyone in particular. It's just that there seems to be a bit of disbelief about entitled pnms coming from some alumna, and I can tell you that being on the front lines as an active is a very different experience. I've spoken extensively about our experiences with many of my sorority member relatives who represent several generations of sisters at many of the same chapters. The attitudes and behaviors we are seeing now (from pnms and families) are very different than even a decade ago. This is my generation and yes, even I can step back and see some things are seriously twisted.

I didn't say RFM doesn't work. I just don't think it's the pancea so many want to think it is. It probably works better at some schools than others.

All I know is what I am familiar with, which is highly competitive schools with very entrenched tier systems. From my perspective, RFM helps those "middle of the road" groups the most because they get to see more women who might have dropped them quickly had they been held on for additional rounds by "top" chapters. The top groups will always get who they want, even when they are fighting it out for the same "most desireable" pnms. That's really the way things have always been. If a top group doesn't make quota, it's so easy to snap to quota out of the pretty perfect princesses who dropped out of recruitment when they were dropped from the top groups. Sadly, that group of pnms is usually full of good candidates, so if you're pulling from them for your last few bids it's not a huge issue. I just don't think RFM does that much for struggling chapters, at least at campuses where someone would rather not be Greek at all than wear the letters ABC. I can't even dream of how demoralizing it would be to not have a large portion of your new members show up for bid day and to watch your new member class progressively dwindle through the weeks leading up to initiation.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by Barbie's_Rush

I just don't think RFM does that much for struggling chapters, at least at campuses where someone would rather not be Greek at all than wear the letters ABC. I can't even dream of how demoralizing it would be to not have a large portion of your new members show up for bid day and to watch your new member class progressively dwindle through the weeks leading up to initiation.

I agree, but I don't know what else you can do to change that. RFM may have to be changed for those schools. Then again, does it hurt anymore to have a pledge class of 50 with only 20 showing up on bid day or a pledge class of 20 on bid day when quota is 50? I guess in the end with reaching quota, there is still the possibility that some of the girls may show up. Either way you still end up with 20.

From someone experienced with the old system, the weak chapter on campus doesn't feel so hot when you pick up 10 people on bid day when quota is 35, either. It hurts no matter how you work the system. I had at least three women in my Rho Chi group that got cut from all the groups on campus but this group, and I talked them all into giving that group a chance. Crying PNMs on Day 3 of recruitment right before Prefs are tough, especially since they really don't have anymore time to really get to know their only remaining chapter.

BTW, I think that chapter might have survived with a little help from RFM.

[violetpretty]

Originally Posted by Splash

The chapter will only be able to take quote either way. This applies to every group of girls who goes to every round. I am speaking about qualified PNM's who get cut due to high release figures that having been given another chance could have won the sorority over. You say they'll be cut anyway. If they're qualified, giving them an extra chance to win the sorority over could only help their chances.

The purpose of RFM is not to help PNMs' chances at top chapters. The purpose of RFM is to maximize Panhellenic membership. Panhellenic membership is maximized when ALL chapters are making quota or coming close. If "top" chapters DON'T make those heavy cuts after round 1, PNMs choose to cut the "bottom" chapters, and then there is a huge disparity in the available PNM pool for "top" and "bottom" chapters. Additionally, there will be more women bidless because chapters can only take quota (plus maybe a few QAs). So, small chapters not making quota plus lots of unmatched women, all so PNMs can "have another chance" at a "top" chapter.

Originally Posted by Barbie's_Rush

I just don't think RFM does that much for struggling chapters, at least at campuses where someone would rather not be Greek at all than wear the letters ABC. I can't even dream of how demoralizing it would be to not have a large portion of your new members show up for bid day and to watch your new member class progressively dwindle through the weeks leading up to initiation.

Kind of. Every campus has "top", "middle", and "bottom" chapters. I think it's more a matter of how awful a "bottom" chapter is perceived to be. It's not like all "bottom tier" chapters (even at competitive schools) are experiencing poor retention/not making quota. They might be in danger if it were not for RFM. I guess my point is that RFM alone won't save a chapter that has reached the point of no return, but it can help a chapter from getting there in the first place.

[carnation]

Originally Posted by violetpretty

The purpose of RFM is not to help PNMs' chances at top chapters. The purpose of RFM is to maximize Panhellenic membership. Panhellenic membership is maximized when ALL chapters are making quota or coming close. If "top" chapters DON'T make those heavy cuts after round 1, PNMs choose to cut the "bottom" chapters, and then there is a huge disparity in the available PNM pool for "top" and "bottom" chapters. Additionally, there will be more women bidless because chapters can only take quota (plus maybe a few QAs). So, small chapters not making quota plus lots of unmatched women, all so PNMs can "have another chance" at a "top" chapter.

Kind of. Every campus has "top", "middle", and "bottom" chapters. I think it's more a matter of how awful a "bottom" chapter is perceived to be. It's not like all "bottom tier" chapters (even at competitive schools) are experiencing poor retention/not making quota. They might be in danger if it were not for RFM. I guess my point is that RFM alone won't save a chapter that has reached the point of no return, but it can help a chapter from getting there in the first place.

Both paragraphs: very, very true. I would love to see some kind of research that explores the number of women getting bids now vs. the numbers in past years. I would expect the numbers took a dip before someone came up with quota plus but by this time, they should have gone up again.

For sure, this part of the country isn't seeing all the chapters dying that we used to or even the number of very tiny "bottom" tier chapters on their way out. I think that RFM is finally doing its job.

I can still understand the frustration of women who are heavily cut right off because they were cut after only 1 brief party (sometimes just 20 minutes) in which hardly anyone got to know them. I don't know what the answer is for that.