Nebraskan city to hold immigration vote

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Didn't we try the amnesty thing before?

I don't remember. Anything's possible.

Originally Posted by Kevin

Until we're actually ready to enforce the laws on the books and properly guard the border, we shouldn't do anything.

If we can do those things, I think some sort of quick path to citizenship, or at least a low cost work permit program would be a better option. Until then, we all subsidize illegal immigration anyway through their drawing on our social services, criminal and civil justice systems, driving on our roads, etc.

Priority one, however, must be building a system where never again will there be an entire class of people who has to live in the shadows.

I hear ya. As with all other social, political and economic topics, this is tough and there are no quick and fool proof solutions that will be fully supported and fully effective.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Didn't we try the amnesty thing before?

Until we're actually ready to enforce the laws on the books and properly guard the border, we shouldn't do anything.

If we can do those things, I think some sort of quick path to citizenship, or at least a low cost work permit program would be a better option. Until then, we all subsidize illegal immigration anyway through their drawing on our social services, criminal and civil justice systems, driving on our roads, etc.

Priority one, however, must be building a system where never again will there be an entire class of people who has to live in the shadows.

I rather agree, but it was the new guy who flipped out and really brought amnesty into this discussion in the first place.

I wonder though, with the number of illegal immigrants working under false SSNs and paying into the system with no way to withdraw from it - are we talking a net drain on resources or not? And how big is that actual drain? It's probably impossible to know, but it seems few people actually include what they put into the system as well as what they take out.

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

I don't like the term, " Doing jobs Americans won't do", because I don't feel like thts the case. I think they are getting paid wages that Americans can't survive on. I think if these so called unwanted jobs paid 11-13 dollars an hour you would see more US citizens applying for them. If we make everyone legal and give them the protection of labor laws and higher wages, who's to say the demand for migrant workers will be there anymore.

I agree that it's a lot about wages, however migrant workers are different from illegal immigrants. Unless I'm behind it's still possible to work here temporarily for the harvest season as a migrant worker and return home each year.

I do think that there's something also to be said about wanting cheap produce and products. If we're only willing to pay X for orange juice, they'll only pay Y. If they start paying Y+Z for workers, orange juice will cost more than X.

/solve for Y

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

I don't like the term, " Doing jobs Americans won't do", because I don't feel like thts the case. I think they are getting paid wages that Americans can't survive on. I think if these so called unwanted jobs paid 11-13 dollars an hour you would see more US citizens applying for them. If we make everyone legal and give them the protection of labor laws and higher wages, who's to say the demand for migrant workers will be there anymore.

That's because so many Americans try to live beyond their means. And yes, there are a LOT of jobs that many refuse to take due to the wages...been to your local fast food joint lately? Seen any changes? Not just in racial make up but age range of those working the counter?? Not teens anymore.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by super.fly

I have a job. I am not worried about my job. I am worried about the cost of health care.

I don't like the fact that people like yourself working low level jobs are going to ride my coattails and eventually raise my costs.

If you would get a real job and cover your own costs then things would be fine.

The only people that don't care about the cost of health care are the people that do not work and do not contribute to the pot.

PS. In case anyone has not noticed, health care costs are now going up.

Listen bitch, I pay more taxes in one month then you probably do all year, and since I've yet to breed I don't get a penny of it back. If you're so worried about the cost of health care I suggest you get a job with a better health insurance plan.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

That's because so many Americans try to live beyond their means. And yes, there are a LOT of jobs that many refuse to take due to the wages...been to your local fast food joint lately? Seen any changes? Not just in racial make up but age range of those working the counter?? Not teens anymore.

You think you can live on a minimum wage job? Or even two minimum wage jobs? Good luck.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by super.fly

Drolefiles "brilliant" reason for anmesty was so people would stop complaining.

Big word seem hard for you.

You. Are. A. Moron.

Apparently one who has the word amnesty flashing over his eyes so that he can't see anything else and it makes him go *whargarble*

[PiKA2001]

We had an amnesty in the late 80s. It was supposed to be a One time only fix all for the illegal immigrant problem. 20 years later we have 18-20 million illegals living here, hence the contention people have over the idea of another amnesty.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

I don't like the term, " Doing jobs Americans won't do", because I don't feel like thts the case.

To be clear, that phrase didn't come from my post.

It's funny because I was going to express my hatred for that phrase, which has been used against Blacks for decades, but I decided to spare GC of my soapbox.

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

I think they are getting paid wages that Americans can't survive on. I think if these so called unwanted jobs paid 11-13 dollars an hour you would see more US citizens applying for them. If we make everyone legal and give them the protection of labor laws and higher wages, who's to say the demand for migrant workers will be there anymore.

Illegal immigrants (and many nonwhite legal immigrants from across the globe) are getting paid wages that feed capitalism. Minimum input and maximum output. Illegal immigrant populations are perfect targets for low wage and menial labor because their immigrant status shapes their rights and perceptions of their opportunities. I'll end my soapbox there.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

You think you can live on a minimum wage job? Or even two minimum wage jobs? Good luck.

Oh...I agree with you Drole...but some of these jobs that are low paying that American's won't take, immigrants have taken and somehow stretched that money because they aren't pressed about trying to 'be like the jones'.

Not saying that you have to live 'well' , but I do think for some this may be a lesser of 2 evils...not to mention you have some people that actually pool their resources together to get by...most of them are doing what we try to do by ourselves.

Another small point you brought up...the issue with social security...I am thinking...and correct me if I am wrong...but with at least an SSN, you can probably take a change and get an above minimum wage job and not have to worry too much about working under the table....til you get caught.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

Oh...I agree with you Drole...but some of these jobs that are low paying that American's won't take, immigrants have taken and somehow stretched that money because they aren't pressed about trying to 'be like the jones'.

Not saying that you have to live 'well' , but I do think for some this may be a lesser of 2 evils...not to mention you have some people that actually pool their resources together to get by...most of them are doing what we try to do by ourselves.

Another small point you brought up...the issue with social security...I am thinking...and correct me if I am wrong...but with at least an SSN, you can probably take a change and get an above minimum wage job and not have to worry too much about working under the table....til you get caught.

Minimum wage isn't under the table though, it's absolutely unlivable. You need job skills to get a job over the table, and most Mexican immigrants are not highly educated.

There's a reason why there's a stereotype of illegal immigrants living in large numbers within a tiny apartment or home. Pooling money make things possible. Also manual labor CAN pay fairly well instead of paying under minimum, some employers will just pay under the fair wage instead. Still a rip off.

It's possible to squeak by if you have 2 minimum wage jobs and a shitty apartment and just you and your spouse. Varies based on where you live, but you pretty much need some sort of assistance/charity to do more than that. (Not to mention ER bills if you get sick/hurt.)

I actually recommend the episode of 30 days on this issue.

[DaemonSeid]

and boom goes the dynamite.

Hey clown, it doesn't take a genius to figure you out.

Low post count in this type of thread...c'mon son.

Step your game up.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Minimum wage isn't under the table though, it's absolutely unlivable. You need job skills to get a job over the table, and most Mexican immigrants are not highly educated.

There's a reason why there's a stereotype of illegal immigrants living in large numbers within a tiny apartment or home. Pooling money make things possible. Also manual labor CAN pay fairly well instead of paying under minimum, some employers will just pay under the fair wage instead. Still a rip off.

It's possible to squeak by if you have 2 minimum wage jobs and a shitty apartment and just you and your spouse. Varies based on where you live, but you pretty much need some sort of assistance/charity to do more than that. (Not to mention ER bills if you get sick/hurt.)

I actually recommend the episode of 30 days on this issue.

Goticha...wasn't trying to combine mw and under the table...just adding it in to the point in general.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by super.fly

No. Once you open the flood gates you will increase the number of people competing for the same number of dollars. It will only make things worse. Once one shady company cuts corners then it forces the next one in line to do the same. Amnesty won't solve any problems.

Is amnesty going to create more jobs? Are the illegals who are now legal with 6th grade educations going to create jobs? Are they going to contribute enough to the system to cover their health care costs and the 12k per student for public school? If not then who do you think will pay those costs? Do you think people that have to cover those costs will not complain?

Amnesty is not intended to solve problems in and of itself. Problems are solved through a combination of efforts over long periods of time. People are looking for quick fixes that don't exist.

Don't fret, your proposed solutions also suck in and of themselves. It's a Sucky Solutions Party.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

Goticha...wasn't trying to combine mw and under the table...just adding it in to the point in general.

Yeah I understand.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

Listen bitch, I pay more taxes in one month then you probably do all year...

LOL. This was both funny and dumb.

I'm apathetic towards amnesty. The pros and cons should be highlighted and implementing it should not be presented and interpreted as a sure fix to the decades-worth of social issues.