2009/2010 Risk Management Charter Revocations and Suspensions

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by als463

If you've ever read the book "Wrongs of Passage" (shout out to narraht for pointing out that book to me-thanks) you'll see I'm right.

In fact, as an Iraq war veteran, myself, I find the one story in this book about Phi Mu at Widener to be very offensive. The "abuse" this woman endured does not, in my eyes, warrant a diagnosis of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. For those of you who haven't checked out the book, please do. It really is nothing more than a sensational piece.

I am sad when ANY Phi Mu chapter is shut down or put on probation so, please don't assume I don't care about this. I think the chapter at UNC-G is a great group of women and I hope they are able to go back, sometime soon.

I respect that you're a veteran, but PTSD doesn't require a certain level of abuse, it requires an experience that the individual finds traumatic and about a dozen other symptoms including flashbacks, avoidance, hypersensitivity to startle and feeling emotionally numbed It's one of the more complex diagnoses and the only one I found myself having to go back to the DSM-IV for to be sure I'd captured everything relevant.

TL;DR - What the book describes appears to be hazing. However saying the actions weren't "bad enough" to warrant PTSD is wrong.

[als463]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

I respect that you're a veteran, but PTSD doesn't require a certain level of abuse, it requires an experience that the individual finds traumatic and about a dozen other symptoms including flashbacks, avoidance, hypersensitivity to startle and feeling emotionally numbed It's one of the more complex diagnoses and the only one I found myself having to go back to the DSM-IV for to be sure I'd captured everything relevant.

TL;DR - What the book describes appears to be hazing. However saying the actions weren't "bad enough" to warrant PTSD is wrong.

Let me rephrase because I don't want to offend anyone who has ever suffered PTSD. If I have offended anyone with PTSD, I apologize. I would never say something to intentionally hurt someone else's feelings. If you read the book, which it sounds you may have, she talks about how when she transferred from Widener to University of Maryland-Baltimore County, she failed out or she had to leave school because just seeing other Phi Mus wearing Phi Mu letters bothered her so much. I'm not saying I condone hazing. Maybe it is because I spent time in the military but, some of the things in the story did not seem bad enough to warrant her reaction. The fact that we are not allowed to let new members go on scavenger hunts shows that we (Greek Life) has gotten a bit soft. Those are the things many people cherish.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by als463

Let me rephrase because I don't want to offend anyone who has ever suffered PTSD. If I have offended anyone with PTSD, I apologize. I would never say something to intentionally hurt someone else's feelings. If you read the book, which it sounds you may have, she talks about how when she transferred from Widener to University of Maryland-Baltimore County, she failed out or she had to leave school because just seeing other Phi Mus wearing Phi Mu letters bothered her so much. I'm not saying I condone hazing. Maybe it is because I spent time in the military but, some of the things in the story did not seem bad enough to warrant her reaction. The fact that we are not allowed to let new members go on scavenger hunts shows that we (Greek Life) has gotten a bit soft. Those are the things many people cherish.

She said it bothered her to see Phi Mus wearing letters but was that the crux of her PTSD?

A lot of Greeks say that Greek Life has gotten a bit soft but (as I've probably said in a couple of threads today ) it got soft for what was considered a good reason. For every cherished and harmless scavenger hunt, there are chapters that will have a scavenger hunt with an added twist that was added for a number of potentially harmful reasons.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

She said it bothered her to see Phi Mus wearing letters but was that the crux of her PTSD?

A lot of Greeks say that Greek Life has gotten a bit soft but (as I've probably said in a couple of threads today ) it got soft for what was considered a good reason. For every cherished and harmless scavenger hunt, there are chapters that will have a scavenger hunt with an added twist that was added for a number of potentially harmful reasons.

No, there were other symptoms described in the book, she was having flashbacks and night terrors as well as hyperalertness, and avoiding talking about/being around triggers. I could probably diagnose from the symptoms provided (not that I would.)

And co-sign your scavenger hunt comment.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by als463

If you read the book, which it sounds you may have, she talks about how when she transferred from Widener to University of Maryland-Baltimore County, she failed out or she had to leave school because just seeing other Phi Mus wearing Phi Mu letters bothered her so much. I'm not saying I condone hazing. Maybe it is because I spent time in the military but, some of the things in the story did not seem bad enough to warrant her reaction. The fact that we are not allowed to let new members go on scavenger hunts shows that we (Greek Life) has gotten a bit soft. Those are the things many people cherish.

I scanned the pages that described her experience. That kind of reaction to things that remind someone of the abuse is actually really common. Odds are walking up behind her and tapping her on the shoulder would make her jump a mile. It's called being hyperalert and hypersensitve to triggers and these would both indicated PTSD. She experienced some pretty consistent emotional abuse along with some physical abuse it seems.

I suspect being in the military has skewed your perception a bit, and that's fine. But I wouldn't discount the abuse she experienced, which was over her entire pledge period, as "not bad enough." She even acknowledges that none of it sounds that bad individually, but that it was cumulative.

I don't disagree that the no-scavenger hunts rule is silly on the face of it, but that's not what happened here. (And scavenger hunts have been used to haze but that's another story.) Sororities aren't supposed to toughen you up and put you through hell. At least, that's not in anything I ever learned.

[DrPhil]

als463, much respect to a war veteran.

Originally Posted by Drolefille

I respect that you're a veteran, but PTSD doesn't require a certain level of abuse, it requires an experience that the individual finds traumatic and about a dozen other symptoms including flashbacks, avoidance, hypersensitivity to startle and feeling emotionally numbed It's one of the more complex diagnoses and the only one I found myself having to go back to the DSM-IV for to be sure I'd captured everything relevant.

TL;DR - What the book describes appears to be hazing. However saying the actions weren't "bad enough" to warrant PTSD is wrong.

Thank you.

It is based on the person's perception. Similarly, there are probably people in the world who might consider some of the things that als463 saw/experienced in Iraq to be of minimal impact in comparison to the things they have seen/experienced.