Probates!

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by BluPhire

That definitely throws a wrench in what you might be watching.

Yeah my point is that we don't always know what we're watching in some cases.

I rarely watch those shows on youtube (only stepshows should be on youtube as far as I'm concerned) and I definitely don't read the youtube comments.

[preciousjeni]

For the record, there are schools that not only allow, but regulate above-ground pledging, including surfacing. Granted, these schools are mostly in the northeast as far as I know.

I attended a public surfacing this past spring for which the Greek Life director had sent out a mass email invitation to the campus Greeks letting them know they were welcome to attend. Based on attestations by the organization itself as well as the pledge-like behavior of the individuals for some time after the show, it was understood that they had not yet been initiated.

Then, there's another organization on the same campus that surfaces their pledges, but not openly. They invite select people to attend.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

For the record, there are schools that not only allow, but regulate above-ground pledging, including surfacing. Granted, these schools are mostly in the northeast as far as I know.

That irks me to no end.

My alma mater has started requiring the MGC organizations to have a "mass probate/coming out/showcase" at the end of each semester. Even if the students haven't been initiated, all organizations are required to participate.

Many of the older organizations (that have done coming out shows in the past and don't completely bite other organizations' styles) have been upset about it and will typically bring current members on to talk about their respective organizations. The newer organizations (who obviously searched for "Probating 101" on Youtube) will emulate the NPHC organizations' styles, including chants, steps, etc. Their new (or soon to be new) members usually have no idea what's going on, but will try to carry those things over into their active semesters.

I know that if it annoys me, it must be frustrating to the members of the NPHC community here.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

For the record, there are schools that not only allow, but regulate above-ground pledging, including surfacing.

There aren't any schools that formally (documented) do this for NPHC orgs. Some schools may informally do so and that's an extremely unwise (and rare) decision on their part.

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

My alma mater has started requiring the MGC organizations to have a "mass probate/coming out/showcase" at the end of each semester. Even if the students haven't been initiated, all organizations are required to participate.

I would flip. During my time both on the National Board and as a chapter advisor, I've seen Greek Life offices/campus councils do some crazy things. I can usually work something out either where I get my way or where we come to a good compromise.

Originally Posted by DrPhil

There aren't any schools that formally (documented) do this for NPHC orgs. Some schools may informally do so and that's an extremely unwise (and rare) decision on their part.

Add to my post "for organizations that pledge" which usually means Latino/multicultural orgs these days.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

Add to my post "for organizations that pledge" which usually means Latino/multicultural orgs these days.

Depends on how you mean "pledge." We pledge, as do lots of fraternities, but not in the sense that NPHC and MCG orgs typically mean.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

I would flip. During my time both on the National Board and as a chapter advisor, I've seen Greek Life offices/campus councils do some crazy things. I can usually work something out either where I get my way or where we come to a good compromise.

When I was my chapter's advisor, I flat out told the Greek Life office that we weren't going to participate. We were exempt that year.

Since I've left, though, my organization has just sucked it up and participated.

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Depends on how you mean "pledge." We pledge, as do lots of fraternities, but not in the sense that NPHC and MCG orgs typically mean.

Context should clear that up, though

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

Context should clear that up, though

For people who know the difference, sure.

The thing is, there are often lots of people reading who don't know the difference and so don't know how to apply context. Confusion may ensue.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

For people who know the difference, sure.

The thing is, there are often lots of people reading who don't know the difference and so don't know how to apply context. Confusion may ensue.

If, after 6 pages of discussion between NPHC and LGLO/MGC members about probates, said people aren't getting it, I doubt that adding a disclaimer would make a difference.

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Depends on how you mean "pledge." We pledge, as do lots of fraternities, but not in the sense that NPHC and MCG orgs typically mean.

Yet some Sinfonians probate.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

If, after 6 pages of discussion between NPHC and LGLO/MGC members about probates, said people aren't getting it, I doubt that adding a disclaimer would make a difference.

Just trying to keep it clear is all.

Originally Posted by Senusret I

Yet some Sinfonians probate.

I wouldn't be surprised at all. I know that, like was referenced earlier, some of our chapters at HBCU have adopted traditions usually associated with the NPHC.

Still I'd wager that to most Sinfonians, "probate" means a "probationary member" (our term for what used to be called a "pledge"), as in "How many probates did you pledge this spring?".

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

Yet some Sinfonians probate.

HBCUs strike again...or no?

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Just trying to keep it clear is all.

You trynna help Ike? YOU...trynna help Ike? Ike don't need no help!

[rhoyaltempest]

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

For the record, there are schools that not only allow, but regulate above-ground pledging, including surfacing. Granted, these schools are mostly in the northeast as far as I know.

I attended a public surfacing this past spring for which the Greek Life director had sent out a mass email invitation to the campus Greeks letting them know they were welcome to attend. Based on attestations by the organization itself as well as the pledge-like behavior of the individuals for some time after the show, it was understood that they had not yet been initiated.

Then, there's another organization on the same campus that surfaces their pledges, but not openly. They invite select people to attend.

Are you sure the Greek Life director understood what was meant by "surfacing"? He probably didn't even attend the show and wouldn't know the difference. I know of schools (also in the Northeast where I am) where NPHC coming out or neo shows are promoted and regulated by the greek life office as to when they will take place (the date and time must be scheduled and everything). It's very public but greek life understands and requires that those who will participate have been inducted and the new members' names/info are submitted to the greek life office prior to the show. No matter what term is used, the greek life office expects that what will take place is a coming out or neo show.

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by rhoyaltempest

Are you sure the Greek Life director understood what was meant by "surfacing"?...It's very public but greek life understands and requires that those who will participate have been inducted and the new members' names/info are submitted to the greek life office prior to the show.

In the case of the show I attended, the invitation message included a request to keep quiet about the show because the pledges didn't know it was happening.