Nun excommunicated for allowing abortion to save the life of a mother

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

The medical ethics of this is that there are equally effective forms of birth control that are not permanent. The age limitation is actually not based on doctors but on state laws.


But the saving her life part IS the abortion.

If it was all based on state laws, how come doctor shopping works within the same city even? There are doctors out there who impose their values on patients, particularly in a "but you'll want kids later" situation. It's possible that this is at least partially motivated by fear of a lawsuit later, I don't know.

And all other forms of birth control come with their own side effects. Shouldn't an informed adult be allowed to choose? One time cost vs. ongoing costs are important as well. (Argument not really directed at you, just tossing it out there)

I'm not really disagreeing with you on the abortion bit, they just argue that the tube itself could be considered a threat to the mother's health in addition to the pregnancy so they fix problem A which "just so happens" to fix problem B too. It's all working the system.

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Oh, I wouldn't dare, but there is no way to justify allowing a mother of four to die because the nonviable fetus in her uterus that is killing her can't be removed because it's a mortal sin.

I really don't care what the church's teachings on the matter are in reality, I just care that they should not be able to withhold a life saving procedure from a woman who is in their care when she has no choice whether or not she can be in their care. It is all well and good for them to deny care to women when there is another option for them across town, but when that woman is held hostage in their facility by her medical condition, the church is dealing her a death sentence by refusing to allow her medical team and family to treat her how they see fit.

I agree and I think as healthcare stays in the public eye that this will become a bigger issue as time moves on. These specific sort of situations are rare, and this one probably only made the news due to the excommunication. But, it does show that the hospital administrators did the 'right' thing, it was the backlash to that 'right thing' that was the issue.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

If it was all based on state laws, how come doctor shopping works within the same city even? There are doctors out there who impose their values on patients, particularly in a "but you'll want kids later" situation. It's possible that this is at least partially motivated by fear of a lawsuit later, I don't know.

And all other forms of birth control come with their own side effects. Shouldn't an informed adult be allowed to choose? One time cost vs. ongoing costs are important as well. (Argument not really directed at you, just tossing it out there)

Ah...that's a different problem. Medical ethics isn't practiced well by all physicians, and we don't get a book of rules to follow. There are specific laws governing tubal ligations (TLs) in each state regarding the age of the mother, consent forms, timing before labor when consent must be given for TLs to be legal. That being said, many medical procedures definitely have the doctor's own value system imposed on them. Some Catholic OB-GYNs won't even prescribe birth control pills. BUT...if you consult the medical ethics panel, they'll side with what is the standard, not what the individual doctor's personal beliefs might be. Also, TL has side effects as well. It is a surgery with all the risks of anesthesia and invasive procedures. Women with TLs have complaints of worsening pelvic pain and PMS about 3 months after surgery. No one knows why, but it's well documented.