Should fine dining establishments go out of their way to accomodate toddlers?

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by sceniczip

And it's not over-the-top to expect a kid to not kick my seat.

No, that's not over the top at all.

I do happen to enjoy flying, I like the environment. Call me crazy but I really do.

I won't call you crazy; I'll just be happy for you next time I'm enduring a flight.

[IrishLake]

Katmandu, that's exactly where we were too, The Precinct. It was my first time there, and the food was absolutely delish. I've never had a better steak, (I am not a huge steak person, only in certain moods). Not at Mortons, Cameron Mitchel's places... which are very good. The atmosphere was wonderful, the service phenomonal. Both of the kids sitting next to me were each eating the mac n cheese sides as their entrees. Looked so good, that's what I got as one of my sides too, plus sweet potato casserole, which was sweet enough to serve as my dessert.

(Should I mention that 4 hours later I was puking my $60 meal up? No idea what happened. Not food poisoning because my husband ate a little bit of everything on my plate, and he was fine. I think it was because it had been so long since I had rare red meat in my system, that my body didnt remember how to digest it).

[Katmandu]

IrishLake, my last Precinct meal: Dry martini, house salad, Filet Collinsworth (unbelievable), sweet potato casserole, merlot. Service and food outstanding! I know what you mean... when you typically eat low fat and not a lot of red meat, one meal like that can play havoc on your system.

Now back to the thread....

[ForeverRoses]

I have three boys that have trouble sitting still even in family friendly restaurants- I cannot imagine taking them anywhere nicer than a TGI Fridays type of place.

I remember when I was a kid, when we turned 10 (I'm the youngest of 4), my parents made a big deal of taking us out to a nice restaurant for our birthday (just kid and parents- no siblings). I remember getting all dressed up and being so excited for my first "nice" restaurant outing.

My parents took me to Red Lobster. But I thought it was the fanciest place ever and was on my best behavior- I remember the manager even kissing my hand when he came over to our table to wish me a happy birthday.

I guess it is all perspective.

[groovypq]

Originally Posted by sceniczip

Maybe it's a little unrealistic to expect babies not to cry on flights but that doesn't mean I can't still be annoyed by it. I would totally book an adults-only flight if there was an option. I understand that they're not happy but neither are the people who have to listen to them. I don't blame the parents for it though, I just wish there was a way to get them to be quiet.
And it's not over-the-top to expect a kid to not kick my seat. Sorry that's just poor parenting if they don't tell their kid to stop. I do happen to enjoy flying, I like the environment. Call me crazy but I really do.

This. And, it's not over-the-top to expect the parents AND kids to stay in their seats and not hop and bop about all the time. And it's also not over-the-top to expect non-babies to be quiet. Your three-year-old can be told NOT to scream at the top of his/her lungs and comprehend that.

I really only have problems when I go to Florida, and I think it's because the kids are all hopped up on Disney and sugar. Seriously, someone should consider adult-only flights to Florida airports. I bet it would go over.

[Low C Sharp]

Far too many ADULTS, let alone children, in this country don't know how to handle themselves in a nice, adult setting.

This. I don't draw the line between fellow diners based on age, but on behavior. IMHO, anyone who behaves appropriately for the setting is welcome at the table next to me; those who do not, are not.

The article lists a few child-friendly restaurants because most places of that caliber do not welcome children. There are something like 10,000 restaurants in New York City. It makes sense to me that some upscale ones would cater to children (particularly those based in hotels, like the Robuchon place in the Four Seasons) and others would not. I don't have any problem with a subset of restaurants branding themselves as more welcoming and others more exclusive. Last year my family brought our two-year-old to lunch at the Four Seasons in San Francisco and received, bar none, the best service I've ever seen in my life -- service so superb that it kept the child happy and quiet for much longer than we had expected to stay in the restaurant.

That being said, there are four little kids in my extended family right now, and they're very different from one another. I have a 4-year-old nephew who, frankly, I don't enjoy taking to McDonald's. I would go hungry before I'd bring him to Gramercy Tavern! But my 7-year-old niece has been a superb dining companion, with excellent manners and varied tastes, since she was 2. We didn't blink an eye bringing her to white-tablecloth places (albeit not of the Daniel or Per Se caliber), and she was better dressed and better behaved than some of the adult diners.
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Medical Marijuana Dispensary Santa Clarita

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by Low C Sharp

This. I don't draw the line between fellow diners based on age, but on behavior. IMHO, anyone who behaves appropriately for the setting is welcome at the table next to me; those who do not, are not.

The article lists a few child-friendly restaurants because most places of that caliber do not welcome children. There are something like 10,000 restaurants in New York City. It makes sense to me that some upscale ones would cater to children (particularly those based in hotels, like the Robuchon place in the Four Seasons) and others would not. I don't have any problem with a subset of restaurants branding themselves as more welcoming and others more exclusive. Last year my family brought our two-year-old to lunch at the Four Seasons in San Francisco and received, bar none, the best service I've ever seen in my life -- service so superb that it kept the child happy and quiet for much longer than we had expected to stay in the restaurant.

That being said, there are four little kids in my extended family right now, and they're very different from one another. I have a 4-year-old nephew who, frankly, I don't enjoy taking to McDonald's. I would go hungry before I'd bring him to Gramercy Tavern! But my 7-year-old niece has been a superb dining companion, with excellent manners and varied tastes, since she was 2. We didn't blink an eye bringing her to white-tablecloth places (albeit not of the Daniel or Per Se caliber), and she was better dressed and better behaved than some of the adult diners.

I think 7 years old is getting close to the age where you could consider taking a child to some nicer restaurants. Like you said, Daniel and Per Se would be too much, but Per Se, specifically could challenge the staying power of an adult with the average dining time of 4 hours. I wouldn't mind seeing a well behaved child under 10 at a haute cuisine restaurant, and would actually be impressed that the parents have introduced such varied foods to the child so that he/she will eat something other than chicken nuggets! (I think the children's menu is the worst thing to happen to American dining.)

[Low C Sharp]

I agree with you about the children's menus! They are evil. Bad for dining and terrible for public health -- children who get in the habit of eating high-fat garbage will always be attached to those foods. The children's menu should have small portions of the dishes on the main menu.

Of course, the finest restaurants will try to make any diner happy, regardless of age and the menu. During the Four Seasons visit that impressed me so much, my 2-year-old niece's mini sandwich came with bite-size mixed fruit on the side. The waitress noticed that my niece loved the blueberries in the fruit salad and was eating them first...so without being asked, she brought a bowl of blueberries to the table! Service like that makes me happy to pay $20 for a club sandwich.

This article has good suggestions for parents:

http://blogs.pitch.com/fatcity/2010/..._taking_yo.php
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LATIN GIRL LIVE

[ApplePiePhi]

I'm a server at a mid-level "upscale" restaurant I guess you can say?
certainly nothing that has really been spoken about on this thread, but higher than the family friendly restaurants. (I'd rather not post where I work due to what I'm going to say)..these are all in the 'general' world, as tips and that sorta thing can never be judged by looking at them, but this is just from my "experience" (i've only worked there for a year so far).

Unfortunately due to the demand of families, our restaurant has had it's doors open up to large parties, and for accommodations for children, which is something that they are now trying to fix with new renovations (making it less reasonable for a party more then 8 to get a table). I find that parties, even at the size of 8 with children are typically awful for a number of reasons

whether they're well behaved or not, if your party is a certain number +, you're going to get atleast 2 servers taking care of you, with the 15% adding right on. However, if a number of kids are included in this party number, the tips diminishes significantly and there's really no point in having the second server around, but due to rules (or sharing of different sectioned tables) nothing can be done. Often parents don't realize this and "compensate"

Then you have the problem of a bunch of children being around each other, almost feeding off each others' energy.. which leads to games like tag, or hide and seek in the dining room. I've seen it multiple times, and unlike most servers or even managers, have found their parents, and have talked to them sternly that our restaurant is not a McDonalds playground, and they could actually be severely hurt if a server walked, or tripped over them, kicked them, or they run into the kitchen's swinging doors when someones behind them. This has happened even without it being a "party" per say.

I've also had a lot of trouble with parents who don't understand to NOT order food for your child if you know s/he won't eat it. Because it ends up on the floor. and who takes care of that? normally the busser, but most of the time, these same parents spend 2+ hrs at the table (so the server looses a possible 2 turns) and the bussers are usually gone by whatever time they finish. So it's the server. Typically, these same people only tip 10%, if that. I had to serve a family where they had a disabled baby. They ordered him mac and cheese. none of it entered this kid's mouth, but ended up ALL over the floor and the table, making a huge disturbance in the dining area as well as a huge mess, which I ended up having to clean up as they left when they bussers did. I understand, that this is my job, and along with it comes this situation...buuut I still don't like it.

And while this child makes a mess, just like any other child who makes a disturbance, the parents are spending more of their time coddling their kid rather than enjoying their meal, which is not cheap.

Another annoyance is when the restaurant is an hour away from close, and you decide to bring your family of 20, 10 of them being children. Sure, it's a weekday, it's late, we have a place for you that is not around the main dining area. But oh wait, you want us to make everyone's meals ready in 10 minutes because you don't want your kids to stay up late on a school night, and they're getting fussy because they should be in bed? sorry, not going to happen.


This was really for me to vent my frustrations. When it comes to well behaved children, I give a huge compliment to the parents to let them know whatever they do as parents is working (while hoping for another parent to overhear and take a hint).

[Munchkin03]

I think a lot of it comes down to people who don't want to face reality when they have kids. Things change, and everyone thinks they can "have it all," and they think having a baby won't change their lives. But it's like, "Dude! You have a little person who requires your attention and care. This means no Boulud for you unless you hire a sitter!"

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

I think a lot of it comes down to people who don't want to face reality when they have kids. Things change, and everyone thinks they can "have it all," and they think having a baby won't change their lives. But it's like, "Dude! You have a little person who requires your attention and care. This means no Boulud for you unless you hire a sitter!"

Ding, ding!

I think with some parents, there is the expectation that people should accommodate them because they have kids.

Example: I went for a pedi recently and there was a MOM who brought her 2-year-old with her while she got a mani. She got upset when the nail lady told her that her kid needed to stay in the waiting area.

The whole time she was being serviced, the kid kept crying (because she left him in the waiting area and he couldn't come back there). Mom asked for crayons and such to keep him occupied and got an attitude when the nail lady was like "we don't have any."

So, kiddo cried in the waiting area and disturbed what was supposed to be my nice relaxing pedi. To top it off, when mom left, she flounced and declared that she was never coming back again. lol.

I'm sorry, a freaking salon isn't supposed to be kid-friendly.

When you have kids, eithr you get a sitter or you do your manis at home.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

Ding, ding!

I think with some parents, there is the expectation that people should accommodate them because they have kids.

Example: I went for a pedi recently and there was a MOM who brought her 2-year-old with her while she got a mani. She got upset when the nail lady told her that her kid needed to stay in the waiting area.

The whole time she was being serviced, the kid kept crying (because she left him in the waiting area and he couldn't come back there). Mom asked for crayons and such to keep him occupied and got an attitude when the nail lady was like "we don't have any."

So, kiddo cried in the waiting area and disturbed what was supposed to be my nice relaxing pedi. To top it off, when mom left, she flounced and declared that she was never coming back again. lol.

I'm sorry, a freaking salon isn't supposed to be kid-friendly.

When you have kids, eithr you get a sitter or you do your manis at home.

That takes nerve! The owner should have told her to take the kid home!

[indygphib]

Sigh. Ten bucks says that the oblivious parents who bring their little ones to the fancy-schmancy restaurants today are the helicopter parents of tomorrow who will pitch the mother of all fits when their "special little snowflake" doesn't get a bid during recruitment.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

That takes nerve! The owner should have told her to take the kid home!

That's exactly what would have gone down at my nail place, those ladies are no joke! The only kids I've seen in there are the ones getting their nails done.

[IrishLake]

Originally Posted by indygphib

Sigh. Ten bucks says that the oblivious parents who bring their little ones to the fancy-schmancy restaurants today are the helicopter parents of tomorrow who will pitch the mother of all fits when their "special little snowflake" doesn't get a bid during recruitment.

Bwahahahaha!

my own HUSBAND has suggested i take my kids with me to the salon when I get my hair hi-lighted. he got a huge "WTF are you thinking?" look. not only would they be a disruption to other patrons, but they'd be a disruption to ME! salon time is ME time, you bozo. take the kids to the autoparts store and home depot with you!

(and i'm going to brag here a bit... my husband is an academically trained chef, and my daughter has inherited his palate. there is very little she wont eat, and chicken fingers for dinner out are a big no-no. even she claims they are "only for lunch." if anything, we'll get an adult grilled chicken sandwich, and the kids split it, with a side of broccoli and french fries... hey, i'm not THAT cruel to deny them fries! and never in my life have i seen a kid eat stuff like fresh fruit and sweet bell peppers like she does. i'm waiting patiently for my son to start eating like her.)