kappa sigma at fgcu?

[SWTXBelle]

Originally Posted by FSUZeta

that there are rules and procedures that apply to everyone/every organization, and those rules and procedures should be followed , that KSigAdvisor has not furthered his cause nor his case and that he has been extremely insulting and derogatory to many gc members and has been especially insensitive toward women.

Are any of the NPC chapters doing anything with Kappa Sigma?

[33girl]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

Are any of the NPC chapters doing anything with Kappa Sigma?

I think that's another one of the colony's complaints - that the sororities are being instructed not to have mixers, etc with them. (Jennyj correct me if I got this wrong) But you, I, and the whole free world know that if these guys were awesome enough, if a new fraternity was needed enough, and if the sororities dug them enough, there would be plenty of non-official "socializing" at parties and such.

[SWTXBelle]

Originally Posted by 33girl

I think that's another one of the colony's complaints - that the sororities are being instructed not to have mixers, etc with them. (Jennyj correct me if I got this wrong) But you, I, and the whole free world know that if these guys were awesome enough, if a new fraternity was needed enough, and if the sororities dug them enough, there would be plenty of non-official "socializing" at parties and such.

I know that back when I was advising we could have no "official" social events with non-recognized groups.

[FSUZeta]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

I know that back when I was advising we could have no "official" social events with non-recognized groups.

that is exactly right-too many potential risk management issues doing things with a non-recognized group.

[CougarGrad]

Originally Posted by FSUZeta

that is exactly right-too many potential risk management issues doing things with a non-recognized group.

And if a group that is NOT officially recognized by the campus community asks for meeting space or other services, they're probably gonna say no for the same reason. They don't want the liability in case something happens.

[jennyj87]

Originally Posted by 33girl

I think that's another one of the colony's complaints - that the sororities are being instructed not to have mixers, etc with them. (Jennyj correct me if I got this wrong) But you, I, and the whole free world know that if these guys were awesome enough, if a new fraternity was needed enough, and if the sororities dug them enough, there would be plenty of non-official "socializing" at parties and such.

Individually I know a few girls interact with them, but the majority of us do not. There have been no socials, unofficial OR official. We have been instructed to stay away from the situation

[jennyj87]

Originally Posted by KSigAdvisor

Jenny87, we have emails of support from Chi Omega and another sorority (can't recall which) supporting us, sent from your national offices. Unfortunately the information passed to you guys so far has been inaccurate, and for some reason you've been "instructed" not to interact with us. We will do a better job of communicating why we're on campus and why we're allowed to be on campus, and will continue to work through this issue. If my instincts from being an undergraduate are correct, though, you have been mislead by the other fraternity members who have pitted you against us, labeling us as "bullies" (direct quote from the office of student involvement) and therefore some of the sorority members have reacted. This is a tough situation with so many out there spreading false rumors, but give us a chance. You won't hang out with us if we're not cool enough anyway, as Belle said, but at least treat us fairly. We do have a right to be here, as the letters from your national offices indicate.

As far as I have been told at chapter meetings, we are to stay away from the situation. I trust my chapter president and our panhellenic president. And after your comments about sorority women being small minded, explain to me why I would even want to hang out with you? Even if my sorority says we should support you, I am an individual and I do not have to.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by KSigAdvisor

Jenny87, we have emails of support from Chi Omega and another sorority (can't recall which) supporting us, sent from your national offices.

I never in all my life thought I would say this, but paging NutBrnHair.

[SWTXBelle]

Originally Posted by 33girl

I never in all my life thought I would say this, but paging NutBrnHair.

It's the end of the world as we know it . . .

[jennyj87]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

Are any of the NPC chapters doing anything with Kappa Sigma?

No

[SWTXBelle]

[QUOTE=KSigAdvisor;1915575

My comment to Belle was in response to her original comment where she took a shot at me. She removed the post, however, so now I look like a jerk. She finished by saying "I'm just sayin" so I was mimicking her post. It was completely in jest, lighten up.

Kappa Sigs do not disrespect women, whatsoever, and that kind of behavior is not tolerated. If a girl wants to jump in and call me a fucking idiot, I shouldn't react. Also, Belle took my comments and ran with them. I never said anything negative towards women.
And is response to your comment, Belle, that "we're not awesome" enough, thanks for that. (Where are you at attacking her Stu?) So, Belle, don't assume anything. Our guys are top notch, despite the year and a half peer bashing they've received from the other groups.
.[/QUOTE]

I explained point by point using your exact words why I interpreted your postings as I did. GCers can decide for themselves if I am off-base. Several women have informed you that they do in fact believe you have made negative comments about women. You may not have intended to - I'll give you the benefit of the doubt - but the fact is that is how they read. You may either become defensive, or might I suggest you go clean up your posts so they focus on your arguments for Kappa Sigma at FGCU?

I have not called you any names, nor have I used any language which a lady would not use. If you look like a jerk, it is entirely of your own doing.

I made one cheap shot, realized it was exactly that, and took it down. It was up for a matter of minutes.

I never posted anything that stated you were not "awesome enough". I went so far as to ask you in consideration for the "undoubtly good guys" in your colony to stop the insulting and demeaning language. I would appreciate it if you would not misrepresent my postings, although in all fairness I should say that anyone can read the thread and draw their own conclusions.

COMPLETELY UNSOLICITED ADVICE - Don't make this about you - make your argument for Kappa Sigma colonizing without university approval in the best logical, rational way you can. Having done so, let those who disagree do the same without getting caught up in any personal animosity. Don't post anything which you wouldn't willingly submit to your HQ. In that way you can best advance your cause, represent your fraternity, and contribue to the community at Greek Chat.

[SWTXBelle]

Originally Posted by KSigAdvisor

No misrepresentations Belle, intentionally or unintentionally, by either party. Removing your post doesn't mean you didn't take a shot at me, either.

Sigh.

Where did I state that you (Kappa Sigma) wasn't "awesome enough"? Stating that I did so is in fact misrepresenting my posts. And then there's the whole issue of seeming to tie me to some of the name calling which occurred - when in fact I did no such thing.

And removing my post means that I recognized within minutes of posting that it was completely unacceptable for me to engage in that kind of put-down. I apologize for doing so. It was beneath me. I did what I could to remedy the situation.

I'd be really interested in seeing the letters of support from NPC chapters, because as we discussed, I believe it is a liability issue. I also find it hard to believe that the three chapters would go against their nationals.

I'm done here.

[LaneSig]

Originally Posted by KSigAdvisor

My main point, and again, none of you need to agree in order for KS to be on campus, is that despite all of this bickering and disagreement, which there will be more of in the future, when it comes to protecting our rights against universities, we should all be on the same team. That is why the leaders of every national fraternity support open expansion. If you disagree and think whoever gets to campus first wins, fine. But regardless, when you take the time to read the case law, constitution, Title 9, etc., you will realize that FGCU can't keep us off campus just because our peers (IFC and apparently their local advisors) don't want us here. Groups of people don't have to accept competition, but thankfully FGCU (government) still has to treat everyone equally.

And is response to your comment, Belle, that "we're not awesome" enough, thanks for that. (Where are you at attacking her Stu?) The IFC members go out of their way to make it hard on us. One person in a local chapter called our executive director and said he didn't see us on the website and that we were a joke, but he lied to our executive director about who he was (we found out later). Then the kid went around and told everyone we weren't even recognized by our own fraternity, which was patently false. I'm not complaining, don't get me wrong. We knew what we signed up for, and we embrace the challenge. Further, we do hang out with sorority members, but as for official functions, they have been told not to do events with us (possibly for insurance purposes). PHC even went so far as to instruct their members not to sign our petition because they'd get in trouble for signing it. So, Belle, don't assume anything. Our guys are top notch, despite the year and a half peer bashing they've received from the other groups.

It's sad that you guys would fight so hard to keep a bunch of 18 to 22 year olds from enjoying the same rights and benefits that you enjoyed while undergraduates. You don't have to accept us into IFC, but we want our equal rights from the school, plain and simple.

Originally Posted by KSigAdvisor

Let me take this opportunity to re-frame the argument, as you suggested, since we are so far off track.

Please stop saying "we didn't follow the rules." If FGCU and/or IFC has said "in order to operate on campus, you must first turn in your constitution, get a faculty advisor, submit your fiscal budget for the year, and sit through a seminar, then you will be recognized," that would be called implementing "rules." Had that happened, and we had said "no thanks, we don't have to follow those rules; those rules don't apply to us, etc." then at that point each of you would have good reason to question our motives. Those "rules" would be equally applied across the board to every student organization. We would have gladly followed those "rules" and once we are on campus, we will follow any such rules the school may require.

However, here is what really happened, and these are the facts. We asked to come onto campus in November of 2008 during a meeting with the office of student life. They said "no." They didn't lay out a bunch of easy guidelines and steps we had to follow, such as in my hypothetical above, they flat out said no.

Going home at that point is not called following the rules. Public universities don't have the right to allow some universities on campus and ban others. So as you can see, we didn't "break the rules" there were no rules to follow. Telling a group they can't come on campus means there are no rules to follow!! It means they can't come, that's it.

Now, FGCU is a public university funded by taxpayer monies, and the way we see it, they don't have the right to tell any student group they simply can't come onto campus.

And this is where all the 1st and 14th Amendment, Supreme Court rulings, and Title 9 arguments come into play. If you think a public university has the right to tell certain groups they can't come onto campus, despite all the clear case law that says they can't, then I guess that's your business, although it's a very difficult argument to support.

But what can't be debated is that the school gave us zero rules to follow, they simply said go home, you can't be here. That is a fact, plain and simple. So, many of you have over and over said "you should have followed the rules" which is extremely frustrating because, as hopefully you now understand, there were no "rules" to follow. We chose to fight for our civil liberties, and because of that, we're being attacked by many people. It's been an uphill battle, but we're still fighting. We simply won't stand for any governmental entity denying us equal protection of the law, and you shouldn't either.

These are the main parts that I am having trouble with your argument.

#1- We KNOW that NIC and our national offices support open expansion. We get that. But we support it when it is done the proper way.

Which leads to your 2nd argument, and quite frankly, I question why you didn't lead with my 2nd quoted section when you first came on here and began posting. If you thought that we had the facts wrong in the first place, why not lead with that and tell us the facts? As I tell my students: If you are trying to convince me of something, tell me the facts first. Don't lead with a whole bunch of gobbledy-gook (in this case all of this 1st, 2nd, 14th Amendment things- and yes, I know the Constitution and the Bill of Rights is not just a bunch of gobbledy-gook. Don't go there.) and simply tell us your story. But, you waited so long to get to the "facts" that it becomes suspicious, leading to my 2nd point.

#2- You are (now) telling us that you went to the administration/Greek Life Office and all they said was "No." They didn't explain their reasons, they didn't discuss anything. You asked, they simply said "No. Please leave our office without further delay or discusssion. We refuse to talk to you about any of our plans or reasons." Just, "No."

You didn't try to talk to them another time? Kappa Sigma didn't ask a national official to talk to them and find out the process or their plans? Again, I'm sorry, but that is poor planning on Kappa Sigma's part. I found the
FGCU IFC Constitution and Expansion Process on line in about 3 minutes.

As for my last post where I said you had to allow anyone who rushed to join your chapters, if you didn't realize that, it was obviously tongue-in-cheek. Sorry if you missed that.

Stufield- I want to publicly praise you in being able to separate all of the posters' criticisms of the process and actions of this one chapter and being able to see that none of us are attacking Kappa Sigma International Fraternity. You are a credit to your organization and Greek Life.

Sincerely and fraternally,
LaneSig