Sprite Step-Off Update: ZTA and AKA to share 1st place

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

No I took issue because it has happened to ALL cultures here in America, not just the ones THEY consider ethnic. It's not just a black thing or a latino thing, its something that Europeans have faced as well. That needs to be known.

If this was your only point then you need to read Ignatiev's "How The Irish Became White." What happened to "white" ethnic groups is nothing like what happened to racial and ethnic minority groups.

The following is the background logic behind the commercialization/cannibalization/Americanization of cultures:

It is true that ethnic groups like Italian Americans are considered white and, like you are saying, members who choose to highlight their ethnic identity (instead of completely assimilate into whiteness 100% of the time) are often stereotyped as an "other." The same goes for other white ethnic groups, including extreme representations of Jewish Americans. STILL not the same as what occurred with racial and ethnic minorities because members of white ethnic groups know exactly when to play up or play down their group traits (with exception for those who have to work extra hard to account for physical characteristics). When white privilege and group advantage based on whiteness are at stake, you won't find too much confusion on how to play the "white game." Racial and ethnic minorities (who can't pass for white) never have the ability to assimilate 100% and forego everything that makes them identifiable as an "other."

Everyone is part of a socially constructed racial and ethnic grouping--even "mixed people." The problem is that whiteness is considered mainstream and void of race and ethnicity. This gave whiteness power and "make believe" racial and cultural ambiguity. "I'm white so I can objectively talk about topics without 'race' clouding my perspective" is the same thing as men saying "I'm a man so I can objectively talk about topics without 'gender' clouding my perspective."

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

If this was your only point then you need to read Ignatiev's "How The Irish Became White." What happened to "white" ethnic groups is nothing like what happened to racial and ethnic minority groups.

It is true that ethnic groups like Italian Americans are considered white and, like you are saying, members who choose to highlight their ethnic identity (instead of completely assimilate into whiteness 100% of the time) are often stereotyped as an "other." The same goes for other white ethnic groups, including extreme representations of Jewish Americans. STILL not the same as what occurred with racial and ethnic minorities because members of white ethnic groups know exactly when to play up or play down their group traits (with exception for those who have to work extra hard to account for physical characteristics). When white privilege and group advantage based on whiteness are at stake, you won't find too much confusion on how to play the "white game." Racial and ethnic minorities (who can't pass for white) never have the ability to assimilate 100% and forego everything that makes them identifiable as an "other."

Everyone is part of a socially constructed racial and ethnic grouping--even "mixed people." The problem is that whiteness is considered mainstream and void of race and ethnicity. This gave whiteness power and "make believe" racial and cultural ambiguity. "I'm white so I can objectively talk about topics without 'race' clouding my perspective" is the same thing as men saying "I'm a man so I can objectively talk about topics without 'gender' clouding my perspective."

I will look into Ignatiev, being as I am Irish/Italian it should be interesting. This is getting deep now, I guess you can't talk about tacos and shamrocks without bringing up race. Maybe I didn't convey the message as I had wanted to, but I don't think it's possible to keep our cultural practices solely "in house" here in America and not for others to experience/exploit/commercialize. I think what we have is a lot of new immigrants (new meaning last 100 years) culture FINALLY becoming part of americana now. I hate to say it but if I truly wanted to experience my grandmothers heritage I'd have to hop a flight to Italy, there's no place here in America that I'd be able to experience it.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

...I don't think it's possible to keep our cultural practices solely "in house" here in America and not for others to experience/exploit/commercialize.

As long as these aren't synonymous to you.

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

I hate to say it but if I truly wanted to experience my grandmothers heritage I'd have to hop a flight to Italy, there's no place here in America that I'd be able to experience it.

Ever heard of "Little Italies" that exist in many large urban centers? Large urban centers have places that are epicenters for racial, ethnic, and cultural identities (not for every group, but for those that have the largest concentration of members who wish to retain their identity). These places exist so that people wouldn't have to leave America to experience their culture.

When you read Ignatiev, you will be reminded of what a "ghetto" is, what "ghettos" meant for immigrant populations, and why this is different from what "ghettos" became for Black and Hispanic Americans.

[KAPital PHINUst]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

I will look into Ignatiev, being as I am Irish/Italian it should be interesting. This is getting deep now, I guess you can't talk about tacos and shamrocks without bringing up race. Maybe I didn't convey the message as I had wanted to, but I don't think it's possible to keep our cultural practices solely "in house" here in America and not for others to experience/exploit/commercialize. I think what we have is a lot of new immigrants (new meaning last 100 years) culture FINALLY becoming part of americana now. I hate to say it but if I truly wanted to experience my grandmothers heritage I'd have to hop a flight to Italy, there's no place here in America that I'd be able to experience it.

*loud round of applause*

PiKA2001, the bolded says it all right there. You summed up this discussion perfectly:

America by design is a cultural bastardization of other nations' cultures, even "traditional" Anglo-European. This should be of no surprise to any ethnicity living here.

[Gomer Pyle]Surprise, surprise, surprise[/Gomer Pyle]

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by KAPital PHINUst

*loud round of applause*

PiKA2001, the bolded says it all right there. You summed up this discussion perfectly:

America by design is a cultural bastardization of other nations' cultures, even "traditional" Anglo-European. This should be of no surprise to any ethnicity living here.

[Gomer Pyle]Surprise, surprise, surprise[/Gomer Pyle]

I disagree.

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by I.A.S.K.

Because lets be honest here we all know (and love that) you're WAY worse than I am. lol. You're an infamous bad boy. I just have my moments.

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

I guess the rules weren't made clear when we started this?

Fine. You both can co-leave the corner.

Like most ex-offenders, I won't get used to life on the outside.

Originally Posted by DrPhil

I disagree.

...said W.E.B.

[KAPital PHINUst]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

I disagree.

So be it.

*And I K.I.M.*

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by KAPital PHINUst

*And I K.I.M.*

As if you have a choice?

[KAPital PHINUst]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

As if you have a choice?

Actually, I do. Sometimes you just talk too dang much and frankly, I just don't want to hear your "mouth" today.

[Prettyface08]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

As if you have a choice?

wait, Wait, WAIT! Does KAPital PHINUst = MG from PP? Please say No! I'm having a flashback of MG saying "And I keeps it moving."