Sprite Step-Off Update: ZTA and AKA to share 1st place

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Everyone knows this. No one was talking about only contributing to their own subculture or not being "fed" by the larger American culture. We're all learned adults who didn't get the bulk of our social norms and accomplishments from a shack located in the Black community.

I find it interesting that people often respond like you are when it is a Black people and white people discussion. When other racial and ethnic groupings (such as Native Americans, Asians, and Hispanics) talk about wanting to keep their traditions in house, people often say "that's great because you all have rich culture and traditions! It's great how you're able to contribute so greatly to our society and still maintain traditional ties!!!!!!" That undoubtedly has to do with differences in population sizes and the history of Blacks in America and Black-white racial dynamics.

Originally Posted by LatinaAlumna

In my experience, it's more like they tell us to "Take that -ish back to Mexico!" ORRRR they modify aspects of our culture to meet their own needs/interests/tastes (which can account for Taco Bell and "Cinco-de-Drinko" festivities, among other things).

Context is everything.

[Ch2tf]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

No, stupid is bitching that places like Taco Bell and "THEY" people celebrating Cinco De Mayo is destroying your culture. I just wanted to point out that it's not just the MExican-American's that have had their cultural practices commercialized.

Where did she say that it was just the Mexican-Americans that have seen a commercialization/Americanization/cannibalization of their culture. She was responding to a post where the preservation of latino culture was looked upon favorably and she provided an general example of how it wasn't. You took issue because she used the word "they" and assumed by that she meant white people and she clearly replied that the use of "they" didn't solely represent white folk.

[Tippiechick]

Ok, I would really like to understand this. I am not being sarcastic or facetious. I am genuinely wanting some deeper understanding of the whole thing.

Here are the things I think I have learned from this thread. Correct me if I am wrong...

1. Each d9 group has their own steps... For someone else to do the steps, it would be like an ADPi doing a crown handsign instead of a diamond. (Yes, I am aware that handsigns were not originated by NPC groups...) You just wouldn't do it, b/c it's as clear as night and day that the crown just isn't appropriate for an ADPi to use. Because, everyone just knows the crown is a ZTA thing.
So, by ZTA using the steps they were offensive and unoriginal. Correct?

2. Sprite fucked up the judging.

3. ZTA should have made up their own steps and choreography. So, based on the scoring system, the judges should have recognized the unoriginal steps and ZTA should have been dropped down in placement.

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by Tippiechick

Ok, I would really like to understand this. I am not being sarcastic or facetious. I am genuinely wanting some deeper understanding of the whole thing.

Here are the things I think I have learned from this thread. Correct me if I am wrong...

1. Each d9 group has their own steps... For someone else to do the steps, it would be like an ADPi doing a crown handsign instead of a diamond. (Yes, I am aware that handsigns were not originated by NPC groups...) You just wouldn't do it, b/c it's as clear as night and day that the crown just isn't appropriate for an ADPi to use. Because, everyone just knows the crown is a ZTA thing.

So, by ZTA using the steps they were offensive and unoriginal. Correct?

2. Sprite fucked up the judging.

3. ZTA should have made up their own steps and choreography. So, based on the scoring system, the judges should have recognized the unoriginal steps and ZTA should have been dropped down in placement.

You are essentially correct.

[Tippiechick]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

You are essentially correct.

Thanks!

[rhoyaltempest]

Originally Posted by Tippiechick

Ok, I would really like to understand this. I am not being sarcastic or facetious. I am genuinely wanting some deeper understanding of the whole thing.

Here are the things I think I have learned from this thread. Correct me if I am wrong...

1. Each d9 group has their own steps... For someone else to do the steps, it would be like an ADPi doing a crown handsign instead of a diamond. (Yes, I am aware that handsigns were not originated by NPC groups...) You just wouldn't do it, b/c it's as clear as night and day that the crown just isn't appropriate for an ADPi to use. Because, everyone just knows the crown is a ZTA thing.
So, by ZTA using the steps they were offensive and unoriginal. Correct?

2. Sprite fucked up the judging.

3. ZTA should have made up their own steps and choreography. So, based on the scoring system, the judges should have recognized the unoriginal steps and ZTA should have been dropped down in placement.

This is pretty much how the thread started off although since then other bigger issues regarding culture and American society have come up and are now being discussed. But yes, although D9 groups make up new moves all the time (to keep things creative and original) some steps each group is known for doing and some have been in their orgs for years, which might be known as "signature" steps within the org; meaning that every chapter (among the stepping chapters) knows these steps in some form although modifications can be found from chapter to chapter. Those in the D9 and followers of stepping, can see a signature step and recognize which group does it right away. We do however do eachother's steps when we are paying tribute and it is obvious (usually a sorority will tribute a fraternity or vice versa).

As for the judges, most agree that the judges should be greek and be very familiar with the stepping tradition and frequent stepshows. In the case of the Sprite Step-Off, celebrities were used, not greeks with a good knowledge of stepping. Also rules were clearly in place and the judges obviously didn't judge correctly in the area of creativity/originality regarding ZTA. The other issues are about the Sprite Step off being promoted as a D9 event, used D9 heavily in their advertising, but yet let others enter the competition which was not clear to some.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by Ch2tf

Where did she say that it was just the Mexican-Americans that have seen a commercialization/Americanization/cannibalization of their culture. She was responding to a post where the preservation of latino culture was looked upon favorably and she provided an general example of how it wasn't. You took issue because she used the word "they" and assumed by that she meant white people and she clearly replied that the use of "they" didn't solely represent white folk.

No I took issue because it has happened to ALL cultures here in America, not just the ones THEY consider ethnic. It's not just a black thing or a latino thing, its something that Europeans have faced as well. That needs to be known.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

No I took issue because it has happened to ALL cultures here in America, not just the ones THEY consider ethnic. It's not just a black thing or a latino thing, its something that Europeans have faced as well. That needs to be known.

If this was your only point then you need to read Ignatiev's "How The Irish Became White." What happened to "white" ethnic groups is nothing like what happened to racial and ethnic minority groups.

The following is the background logic behind the commercialization/cannibalization/Americanization of cultures:

It is true that ethnic groups like Italian Americans are considered white and, like you are saying, members who choose to highlight their ethnic identity (instead of completely assimilate into whiteness 100% of the time) are often stereotyped as an "other." The same goes for other white ethnic groups, including extreme representations of Jewish Americans. STILL not the same as what occurred with racial and ethnic minorities because members of white ethnic groups know exactly when to play up or play down their group traits (with exception for those who have to work extra hard to account for physical characteristics). When white privilege and group advantage based on whiteness are at stake, you won't find too much confusion on how to play the "white game." Racial and ethnic minorities (who can't pass for white) never have the ability to assimilate 100% and forego everything that makes them identifiable as an "other."

Everyone is part of a socially constructed racial and ethnic grouping--even "mixed people." The problem is that whiteness is considered mainstream and void of race and ethnicity. This gave whiteness power and "make believe" racial and cultural ambiguity. "I'm white so I can objectively talk about topics without 'race' clouding my perspective" is the same thing as men saying "I'm a man so I can objectively talk about topics without 'gender' clouding my perspective."

[SthrnZeta]

Originally Posted by rhoyaltempest

Another person chiming in late without reading through the posts and without knowing much about the topic. As someone stated just a few posts back, there were very clear rules that were not followed. Sometimes it's best not to comment if you can't truly contribute to the discussion, especially if you are unwilling to do the research or at least read the previous posts.

Ahem, I am not chiming in late. Have you not checked back in over on the ZTA forum in which I agreed with you...? And since when is an opinion not a contribution to a discussion? I've been on GC long enough to know when to chime in and when to just lurk and I've definitely had my share of time on both sides of that fence, thank you very much.

[SthrnZeta]

Originally Posted by Tippiechick

Ok, I would really like to understand this. I am not being sarcastic or facetious. I am genuinely wanting some deeper understanding of the whole thing.

Here are the things I think I have learned from this thread. Correct me if I am wrong...

1. Each d9 group has their own steps... For someone else to do the steps, it would be like an ADPi doing a crown handsign instead of a diamond. (Yes, I am aware that handsigns were not originated by NPC groups...) You just wouldn't do it, b/c it's as clear as night and day that the crown just isn't appropriate for an ADPi to use. Because, everyone just knows the crown is a ZTA thing.
So, by ZTA using the steps they were offensive and unoriginal. Correct?

2. Sprite fucked up the judging.

3. ZTA should have made up their own steps and choreography. So, based on the scoring system, the judges should have recognized the unoriginal steps and ZTA should have been dropped down in placement.

This is what I learned also, but it seems like since the judges themselves had no knowledge of these specific steps then they couldn't judge appropriately, hence Sprite f-ing up the judging and allowing ZTA to win. (See? I do actually read the whole thread).

I understand that there were rules set out, but I feel (my opinion here) that they were slightly unclear - the judges would have called ZTA out on their lack of creativity IF they had observed it - BUT they didn't. I think that makes the rules unclear, at least to the judges.

At the end of the day though, ZTA won. Period. If this competition was meant to include only D9 orgs, then they need to change the rules and the judges.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

If this was your only point then you need to read Ignatiev's "How The Irish Became White." What happened to "white" ethnic groups is nothing like what happened to racial and ethnic minority groups.

It is true that ethnic groups like Italian Americans are considered white and, like you are saying, members who choose to highlight their ethnic identity (instead of completely assimilate into whiteness 100% of the time) are often stereotyped as an "other." The same goes for other white ethnic groups, including extreme representations of Jewish Americans. STILL not the same as what occurred with racial and ethnic minorities because members of white ethnic groups know exactly when to play up or play down their group traits (with exception for those who have to work extra hard to account for physical characteristics). When white privilege and group advantage based on whiteness are at stake, you won't find too much confusion on how to play the "white game." Racial and ethnic minorities (who can't pass for white) never have the ability to assimilate 100% and forego everything that makes them identifiable as an "other."

Everyone is part of a socially constructed racial and ethnic grouping--even "mixed people." The problem is that whiteness is considered mainstream and void of race and ethnicity. This gave whiteness power and "make believe" racial and cultural ambiguity. "I'm white so I can objectively talk about topics without 'race' clouding my perspective" is the same thing as men saying "I'm a man so I can objectively talk about topics without 'gender' clouding my perspective."

I will look into Ignatiev, being as I am Irish/Italian it should be interesting. This is getting deep now, I guess you can't talk about tacos and shamrocks without bringing up race. Maybe I didn't convey the message as I had wanted to, but I don't think it's possible to keep our cultural practices solely "in house" here in America and not for others to experience/exploit/commercialize. I think what we have is a lot of new immigrants (new meaning last 100 years) culture FINALLY becoming part of americana now. I hate to say it but if I truly wanted to experience my grandmothers heritage I'd have to hop a flight to Italy, there's no place here in America that I'd be able to experience it.

[Prettyface08]

Originally Posted by SthrnZeta

At the end of the day though, ZTA AND AKA won. Period. If this competition was meant to include only D9 orgs, then they need to change the rules and the judges.

Fixed that for you.

[Ch2tf]

Originally Posted by SthrnZeta

This is what I learned also, but it seems like since the judges themselves had no knowledge of these specific steps then they couldn't judge appropriately, hence Sprite f-ing up the judging and allowing ZTA to win. (See? I do actually read the whole thread).

I understand that there were rules set out, but I feel (my opinion here) that they were slightly unclear - the judges would have called ZTA out on their lack of creativity IF they had observed it - BUT they didn't. I think that makes the rules unclear, at least to the judges.

That doesn't make the rules unclear, it makes the judges unqualified, hence Sprite effing it up. No that isn't ZTAs fault, but that does account for a "scoring discrepency". In addition, given that ZTA had been stepping for 16 years, I'm sure the chapter (and possibly the girls involved) knew that those were borrowed steps/themes.

[SthrnZeta]

Originally Posted by Prettyface08

Fixed that for you.

Sprite felt the need to "fix" it well after the final competition. That was just dumb.

[SthrnZeta]

Originally Posted by Ch2tf

That doesn't make the rules unclear, it makes the judges unqualified, hence Sprite effing it up. No that isn't ZTAs fault, but that does account for a "scoring discrepency". In addition, given that ZTA had been stepping for 16 years, I'm sure the chapter (and possibly the girls involved) knew that those were borrowed steps/themes.

Then perhaps AKA should have educated the Zetas when they taught them how to step 16 years ago...