State of the Union Address

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Ghostwriter

^^^ No Doc I am just embarrassed that we have people around that write such inflamatory diatribes just for kicks. It shuts down reasonable discourse, but of course, that may be what the poster wants. I shall ignore him/her/it. Thanks for the heads up.

Uh...ya think?

As for the topic, this was a very lackluster State of the Union Address. I think that's a good thing because I'm tired of presidential speeches (namely, Obama's) being a bigger deal that the hard work and dedication that is supposed to come after the speeches.

[deepimpact2]

Originally Posted by KSigkid

As for "blaming" the old administration - every administration does that to some extent. There's also a big difference between these two ideas:

1) The current administration doesn't deserve any blame because of the shortcomings of the Bush administration.

2) The Bush administration should be blamed for certain things, and the Obama administration should be blamed for certain things. Some of those things are mutually exclusive to each administration.

My sense is that the Obama administration rhetoric is closer to #2, while some administration supporters in the public and press are saying something closer to #1.


One thing in particular on the bolded portion: The true Conservatives out there weren't happy about the spending when Bush was President. There is a significant portion of the Republican party that wasn't happy with Bush as a President and thought he wasn't a true conservative because of how much money he spent on the war and other measures.

Even if "true" conservatives were not happy, they certainly didn't make it all that clear. I think in situations like that people need to let go of strict party support and just say, "hey. There's something about this that is making much sense. we need to step back and rethink this."

And to be honest, my support for Obama aside, I think right now that the main issues we are facing ARE the result of the Bush administration. I don't think there has been enough time to say now that we are facing things that are a result of the shortcomings of the Obama administration. This was one of my concerns about Obama winning though. I felt as though republicans (still don't get why we need to call each other liberals and conservatives) were going to just try and throw all blame on Obama.

[deepimpact2]

What frustrates me is that during the GW's second run for President, they talked down the national debt as if it were no big deal. Now that it's a Dem in office running it up, it's suddenly a major deal again.

I agree.

I'm not as upset about spending in general, but what things the money is spent ON. I keep hearing that Dems are tax and spend, but I've had a bigger tax cut through the stimulus package than I did through Bush's tax cuts all put together. It's all a bunch of rhetoric. They all spend more money than we have, just like most of our citizens are doing.

I would love for someone to stand up and point out the obvious: If you spend beyond your means, it is a problem. Whether it's the country, a business or individual citizens. GET OUT OF DEBT people. Do NOT mortgage your house to 100%+ equity. Equity in your home does not equal free money. This country is so incredibly wasteful and greedy. Everybody wants to have it all and we want it right now. If we were ALL more responsible, we wouldn't be in this mess.

Well said.

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

Even if "true" conservatives were not happy, they certainly didn't make it all that clear. I think in situations like that people need to let go of strict party support and just say, "hey. There's something about this that is making much sense. we need to step back and rethink this."

I think they did make it clear. The problem is that the Limbaughs and the Becks (and on the liberal side, the Olbermanns) are the loudest voices, and they drown out a lot of the other voices.

I think people did let go of strict party support, and I think people have proven they can let go of strict party support. It's the reason why Bush had such a low approval rating, why Obama won so convincingly, and the reason why so many Republicans ditched the McCain ticket after he chose Palin as a running mate.

ETA: One thing I'm trying to stress is that AGDee's comment isn't particular to the ardent Bush supporters. There are going to be certain Obama supporters who ignore his mistakes. Again, that's just an issue with the political world today, in that some people refuse to see the problems with their favorite candidate/politician.

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

And to be honest, my support for Obama aside, I think right now that the main issues we are facing ARE the result of the Bush administration. I don't think there has been enough time to say now that we are facing things that are a result of the shortcomings of the Obama administration. This was one of my concerns about Obama winning though. I felt as though republicans (still don't get why we need to call each other liberals and conservatives) were going to just try and throw all blame on Obama.

How much is enough time, though? Two years? After his first term?

The thing is, a new President is always going to blame the old administration for certain issues. Obama will blame Bush, who blamed Clinton, who blamed Bush, who blamed Reagan, who blamed Carter, who blamed Ford and Nixon, etc. That's just what happens when a new party comes into power (whether right or wrong).

I'm not saying that the new administration should be blamed for every problem. But, there can be blame for certain collateral issues. An example: it may not be accurate to say that a new President created a problem on his own. However, it may be accurate to say that, through some of his policy decisions, a new administration made the problem worse or better.

I used conservatives and liberals because, in my mind, it's more of an accurate label. I don't think that calling someone a "Democrat" or a "Republican" can fairly encompass how they feel on issues. As an example, I'm a registered Republican primarily because of my economic beliefs: I'm also pro-choice, anti-death penalty, and I have no problem with gay marriage.

I understand that the terms "conservative" and "liberal" have their own limitations as well, so I'm not suggesting that everyone has to use the terms. It's just my own way of saying things.

[Ghostwriter]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

I can't fault any of your ideas, but no one would ever pass them...lobbyists would have no power and that's just not the American way!

And you my dear are absolutely correct. We don't have the will to do what is right. However, I can guarantee you that if we do not do something rather quickly we are heading for an economic catastrophe.

Just read that there are 2.15 MM people on the Federal Govt. payroll. Totally unsustainable.

Also the debt ceiling was raised today to 2 trillion. This is the 4th time it was raised in less than a year.