Awkward Aspirants/Awkward Situations

[sigmadiva]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

This is intended for people in organizations that have the following type of membership process: Research, pick an org, attend events, get to know members, get invited to pledging or intake.


So have you ever had an aspirant in your life who was just plain awkward and green and you found yourself really annoyed by them every time you saw them, especially if they're your coworker.

Yeah, that.

I think that you are taking the wrong perspective to this situation.

See, back in the old'n days, pre-MIP, this type of behavior was tolerated, and for some members and chapters, even expected. It was called "pre-hazing / pre-pledging" - a way to see who was really serious about pursuing membership. So the awkward aspirant was not unusual. It was considered normal.

Now, in the era of MIP (i.e., "prevent lawsuits"), NPHC members are encouraged (or should be, anyway) to not interact with the awkward aspirant. I don't think that the awkward aspirant is a new phenomenon, it's just that how we as NPHC members are allowed to interact with them have changed. So we have changed, not them.

[MexicanMami0286]

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

I think that you are taking the wrong perspective to this situation.

See, back in the old'n days, pre-MIP, this type of behavior was tolerated, and for some members and chapters, even expected. It was called "pre-hazing / pre-pledging" - a way to see who was really serious about pursuing membership. So the awkward aspirant was not unusual. It was considered normal.

Now, in the era of MIP (i.e., "prevent lawsuits"), NPHC members are encouraged (or should be, anyway) to not interact with the awkward aspirant. I don't think that the awkward aspirant is a new phenomenon, it's just that how we as NPHC members are allowed to interact with them have changed. So we have changed, not them.

Understood, but there should still be a level of appropriateness. I don't think work is an appropriate time or place for such discussions, like Sen pointed out.

I don't think when I'm sitting in the library trying to do work is an appropriate place for such discussions. I don't think when I'm holding office hours to talk about student papers is an appropriate time for such discussions. And Facebook ain't damn sure the appropriate method to approach me. (True Story).

Also, the majority of the aspirants that have approached me in similar situations weren't aware of the pre-MIP culture of pre-pledging (I asked history questions) and were just...awkward.

[sigmadiva]

You're right. But, my point was that pre-MIP the actions of the awkward aspirant would not seem so inappropriate and unexpected. Now, yes it would.

And, it is still up to the individual member to talk to the aspirant. If you (the general you and you, MexicanMami0286) don't want to entertain the questions, then don't. Just politely refer that person to the chapter / IHQ website and /or the Membership Chair of your chapter. You don't have to have a whole dialog with these people.

Also, if people know that you are a member, then they will approach you, no matter when. You don't want to be bothered at certain times, but they don't know that if they don't really know you. If anything, I would think that it would be a bit flattering when people run you down to ask questions. They see something in you that they want to be like.

[MexicanMami0286]

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

And, it is still up to the individual member to talk to the aspirant. If you (the general you and you, MexicanMami0286) don't want to entertain the questions, then don't. Just politely refer that person to the chapter / IHQ website and /or the Membership Chair of your chapter. You don't have to have a whole dialog with these people.

Also, if people know that you are a member, then they will approach you, no matter when. You don't want to be bothered at certain times, but they don't know that if they don't really know you. If anything, I would think that it would be a bit flattering when people run you down to ask questions. They see something in you that they want to be like.

Understood. Flattering or not, I still will hold that people should adhere to the principles of common sense, professionalism, and common courtesy.

Politely asking, "Is this a good time to talk?" is never a bad idea. And I know I don't have the entertain the questions, but it's not about the questions. It's about the circumstances surrounding the questions.

[sigmadiva]

Originally Posted by MexicanMami0286

Understood. Flattering or not, I still will hold that people should adhere to the principles of common sense, professionalism, and common courtesy.

Politely asking, "Is this a good time to talk?" is never a bad idea. And I know I don't have the entertain the questions, but it's not about the questions. It's about the circumstances surrounding the questions.

I know...I know.....

Just try to be patient with those people. As we say in the South: "Some people just weren't raised rrriiiiiiiightttt."

[DrPhil]

This goes back to the whole subjectivity of "awkward aspirant."

Is it just basic manners, is it based on subtle hints or overtness (is that a word?), GLO-specific protocol, should they be psychic and know that MexicanMami wants them to formally ask "is this a good time," etc...

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by MexicanMami0286

I don't think when I'm sitting in the library trying to do work is an appropriate place for such discussions. I don't think when I'm holding office hours to talk about student papers is an appropriate time for such discussions.

I don't think those are awkward places to have discussions if you know the person and/or if the person finds a non-annoying way to ask you a question. It's about how the person approaches each situation and how I'm feeling on that day.

Another example is that I have seen aspirants try to shake members' hands at rush. Well, that makes sense if they don't know many of the members, but multiply that aspirant by the tons of aspirants who attend some chapters' rushes. Shaking all of those hands can feel like a politician and can get annoying very quickly. That isn't the aspirant's fault unless they miss the hints and become awkward about it. I've also seen aspirants at events who wouldn't look members in their faces, which is based on what they've heard they should do and how it is at some chapters both pre-MIP and MIP. However, it makes more sense to me to just be respectful and business-like which includes looking me in the eyes when I try to speak to you. Not doing so can be interpreted as being rude or feeling you have something better to do. Again, depends on the context.

ETA: I typed pre-MIP and MIP but it isn't so easily dichotomized. Pre-MIP encompasses many decades and people from every decade see how things changed in the following decade. Someone who pledged in 1960 thinks their pre-MIP is way different than someone who pledged in 1980. And in every decade, they had "awkward aspirants."

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

I think that you are taking the wrong perspective to this situation.

See, back in the old'n days, pre-MIP, this type of behavior was tolerated, and for some members and chapters, even expected. It was called "pre-hazing / pre-pledging" - a way to see who was really serious about pursuing membership. So the awkward aspirant was not unusual. It was considered normal.

It is still considered normal. That doesn't make it any less of an awkward aspirant.

This isn't about pre-MIP vs. MIP nor about "pre-hazing/pre-pledging."

[sigmadiva]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

It is still considered normal. That doesn't make it any less of an awkward aspirant.

True.

This isn't about pre-MIP vs. MIP nor about "pre-hazing/pre-pledging."

For me it is. I came in pre-MIP and had to adjust to MIP. So for me, I'm used to dealing with the 'awkward aspirant' because I don't think it is that unusual or shocking. I also came in as an undergrad, so it was very normal for people to just walk up to you and talk to you about joining.

So, from my perspective I think Sen just over-reacted. *shrugs*

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

True.



For me it is. I came in pre-MIP and had to adjust to MIP. So for me, I'm used to dealing with the 'awkward aspirant' because I don't think it is that unusual or shocking. I also came in as an undergrad, so it was very normal for people to just walk up to you and talk to you about joining.

So, from my perspective I think Sen just over-reacted.

I came in as a collegiate post-MIP and I also am used to dealing with the "awkward aspirant" because it isn't unusual or shocking. However, I know what "awkward aspirant" meant to me back then (partially because I was an awkward aspirant at times) and what it means to me as an alum.

So, there clearly isn't a universal "awkward aspirant" definition or experience. I'd be interested to read your "awkward aspirant" experience based on what "awkward aspirant" means to you, sigmadiva.

[sigmadiva]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

I came in as a collegiate post-MIP and I also am used to dealing with the "awkward aspirant" because it isn't unusual or shocking. However, I know what "awkward aspirant" meant to me back then (partially because I was an awkward aspirant at times) and what it means to me as an alum.

So, there clearly isn't a universal "awkward aspirant" definition or experience. I'd be interested to read your "awkward aspirant" experience based on what "awkward aspirant" means to you, sigmadiva.

I think people venture into being an awkward aspirant when they are sooo desperate they'll do *anything* to become a member.

I was told this, so I don't know how true this is, but....I was told about a young lady who attended my undergrad university (Texas A&M) and she wanted to join DST soooo bad. So, she ends up at some house party hosted by a DST, and to show her willingness to want to be a DST, she went back into the DST's kitchen and started washing her dishes. The lady of the house, the DST member, asked what she was doing and why she was doing that. The girl just said she was trying to help.

Now, if that is true, that is awkward. Just asking somebody at work is not awkward. Unless I guess, they are asking you jumping up and down with big puppy-dog eyes, drooling at the mouth.

Oh, I think the person who told me this wanted to know if I knew the desperate young lady since I went to A&M. I told them I didn't.

[rhoyaltempest]

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

I think people venture into being an awkward aspirant when they are sooo desperate they'll do *anything* to become a member.

I was told this, so I don't know how true this is, but....I was told about a young lady who attended my undergrad university (Texas A&M) and she wanted to join DST soooo bad. So, she ends up at some house party hosted by a DST, and to show her willingness to want to be a DST, she went back into the DST's kitchen and started washing her dishes. The lady of the house, the DST member, asked what she was doing and why she was doing that. The girl just said she was trying to help.

Now, if that is true, that is awkward. Just asking somebody at work is not awkward. Unless I guess, they are asking you jumping up and down with big puppy-dog eyes, drooling at the mouth.

Oh, I think the person who told me this wanted to know if I knew the desperate young lady since I went to A&M. I told them I didn't.

Now that is a mess. The damn girl was pledging/hazing herself...LOL! which some "awkward aspirants" have been known to do.