Amanda Knox convicted...

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by federico

we don't judge a girl because of her looking, religion or sexual orientation (that is oklahoma, not italy).

As a life-long Oklahoman, I'm going to have to take a little bit of offense to that.

And it's not anti-Americanism I suspect. It's much simpler. You have an out of control prosecutor who doesn't give a damn about the guilt or evidence of the accused, she'll just do anything, including lie and cheat to win a conviction. And that sort of prosecutor, unfortunately isn't only found in Italy. We have them in Oklahoma also. Even so, there's no way in hell even our worst would attempt, much less get away with what the prosecutor in the Knox case has apparently done. Not even in the most backwater, rural, redneck part of this fine state would that happen.

Apparently, Italy's Code of Evidence allows prosecutors to bring in irrelevant, prejudicial and speculative character evidence to bolster their case. If that had been attempted in an American court (even an Oklahoman court as that's where I'm a licensed and practicing attorney), not only would much of what the prosecutor said about Knox have been thrown out, it also would have caused a mistrial.

It's also alleged that the prosecutor leaked false details to the media for the jury's consumption (as the jury wasn't sequestered).

And of course, you don't really have a case where the theory fit the facts and evidence.. (what little actual evidence there was).

I do hope this case is overturned on appeal and Ms. Knox is afforded a fair trial, which is probably impossible in Italy due to the absurd publicity. Every person charged with a crime deserves a fair hearing and Knox didn't get that.

And I guess I'd better stay out of Italy.. now that I've made some harsh comments regarding this prosecutor, I may be charged with defamation as it seems just about everyone connected to Ms. Knox has been. Anyone know what the statute of limitations for defamation is? Italy is a nice place and I'd like to visit again someday.

[Ghostwriter]

^^^ Ditto the above.

I sometimes wonder if this is not payback for the NATO plane hitting the gondola full of Italians and causing their death as well as the botched rescue of the Italian in Iraq.

Bottom line - how does one remove all their own fingerprints from a scene of murder but leave another persons. It is impossible.

[ThetaDancer]

Originally Posted by Kevin

As a life-long Oklahoman, I'm going to have to take a little bit of offense to that.

And it's not anti-Americanism I suspect. It's much simpler. You have an out of control prosecutor who doesn't give a damn about the guilt or evidence of the accused, she'll just do anything, including lie and cheat to win a conviction. And that sort of prosecutor, unfortunately isn't only found in Italy. We have them in Oklahoma also. Even so, there's no way in hell even our worst would attempt, much less get away with what the prosecutor in the Knox case has apparently done. Not even in the most backwater, rural, redneck part of this fine state would that happen.

Apparently, Italy's Code of Evidence allows prosecutors to bring in irrelevant, prejudicial and speculative character evidence to bolster their case. If that had been attempted in an American court (even an Oklahoman court as that's where I'm a licensed and practicing attorney), not only would much of what the prosecutor said about Knox have been thrown out, it also would have caused a mistrial.

It's also alleged that the prosecutor leaked false details to the media for the jury's consumption (as the jury wasn't sequestered).

And of course, you don't really have a case where the theory fit the facts and evidence.. (what little actual evidence there was).

I do hope this case is overturned on appeal and Ms. Knox is afforded a fair trial, which is probably impossible in Italy due to the absurd publicity. Every person charged with a crime deserves a fair hearing and Knox didn't get that.

And I guess I'd better stay out of Italy.. now that I've made some harsh comments regarding this prosecutor, I may be charged with defamation as it seems just about everyone connected to Ms. Knox has been. Anyone know what the statute of limitations for defamation is? Italy is a nice place and I'd like to visit again someday.

Very well said, Kevin.

This case reminded me how thankful I am for the American legal system.

[federico]

Originally Posted by ThetaDancer

Very well said, Kevin.

This case reminded me how thankful I am for the American legal system.

Well, then try to rember that the idea of "legal system" itself was created in rome (a lots of legal terms are still in latin) and be thankful to our fathers too.

Guys, a fair trial is something that all democracies try to have, but is not easy.And the media are a big problem for the justice everywhere , not just in italy. Just like the stupid politicians (like cantwell) are a big problem for the friendship among countries.

And italy and america are really two friend countries, that is why many of the speeches a lot of americans are doing about this are just stupid.

Anyway, if you really want to know, what we really think in italy now is:"If they really want the evil bitch back, they can have her!!!".

But then we rember of meredith.

[ThetaDancer]

Originally Posted by federico

Well, then try to rember that the idea of "legal system" itself was created in rome (a lots of legal terms are still in latin) and be thankful to our fathers too.

Guys, a fair trial is something that all democracies try to have, but is not easy.And the media are a big problem for the justice everywhere , not just in italy. Just like the stupid politicians (like cantwell) are a big problem for the friendship among countries.

And italy and america are really two friend countries, that is why many of the speeches a lot of americans are doing about this are just stupid.

Anyway, if you really want to know, what we really think in italy now is:"If they really want the evil bitch back, they can have her!!!".

But then we rember of meredith.

Um ok, thanks for the reminder. Stop being so defensive and taking everything personally. No one is bashing Italy.

[federico]

No? But your statements mean that we are giving 26 years to a girl because we resent the U.S. for the deaths of Calipari and of the italians of the gondola (which is so not true, we resent the pilot not the u.s., and we know that friendly fire kills) and we have a third world legal system that is not nearly as good as yours. What is this???


My point is that you need to read more in order to understand why the judges and prosecution decided the way they did.
Of course, the mistakes happen quite often. But most of your opinions are obviously based on the lack of information relevant to the case. We are not all that stupid to be blind and not see what you see. But we also know OTHER THINGS, of which you're not informed.You need to read more in order to understand why the judges and prosecution decided the way they did.

[ThetaDancer]

Originally Posted by federico

No? But your statements mean that we are giving 26 years to a girl because we 1 resent the U.S. for the deaths of Calipari and of the italians of the gondola (which is so not true, we hate the pilot not the u.s., and we know that friendly fire kills) and we have a third world legal system that is not nearly as good as yours. What is this???


My poit is that you need to read more in order to understand why the judges and prosecution decided the way they did.
Of course, the mistakes happen quite often. But most of your opinions are obviously based on the lack of information relevant to the case. We are not all that stupid to be blind and not see what you see. But we also know OTHER THINGS, of which you're not informed.You need to read more in order to understand why the judges and prosecution decided the way they did.
Of course, the mistakes happen quite often. But your opinion is obviously based on the lack of information relevant to the case. They are not all that stupid to be blind and not see what you see. But they also see OTHER THINGS, of which you're not informed.

What the hell are you talking about? Which one of my statements would that be? Being thankful for the American legal system is not the equivalent of saying Italy has a third world legal system.

My only other statement in this thread was that I think you should stop taking things personally and getting unnecessarily defensive. And, especially after reading the rambling post of yours I quoted, I stand by that.

[ASUADPi]

Originally Posted by federico

Well, then try to rember that the idea of "legal system" itself was created in rome (a lots of legal terms are still in latin) and be thankful to our fathers too.

Guys, a fair trial is something that all democracies try to have, but is not easy.And the media are a big problem for the justice everywhere , not just in italy. Just like the stupid politicians (like cantwell) are a big problem for the friendship among countries.

And italy and america are really two friend countries, that is why many of the speeches a lot of americans are doing about this are just stupid.

Anyway, if you really want to know, what we really think in italy now is:"If they really want the evil bitch back, they can have her!!!".

But then we rember of meredith.

Okay if we (Italy and America) are such "friends" why are you jumping down our throats because we don't agree with Italy's pennial system, how the courts are run or what prosecuters can say about a defendent?

Basically your implying, "oh we can all be friends, but you can't say anything bad about our country".

I'm sorry no country is perfect. I may be an American, but the United States is FAR from perfect (look at the major recession we are in right now).

Also how does it help our "friendship" by saying that we can have "the evil bitch back". Nice. If you "Italians" don't want the "evil bitch" there, why the hell did you convict her? Oh wait, you don't know because you didn't sit on the trail, as none of us did. You are, like all of us are, making your assumptions based on what the news is reporting. Yet, I'm sure our news is reporting slightly different than Italian news. (I say this because it's probably true, the media totally filters things).

I never once said in my original post that I was "anti-Italy" and if you got that assumption, I am sorry. But I stand by my opinion that I think your legal system needs some work and that there are some "issues" within it that need to be worked out. Now, it's not to say that ours is perfect (again going back to that), because it's not.

You mentioned OJ Simpson in a previous post, as for him, yes, I think the man is guilty as sin. He got away with murder (IMPO). The thing is, that jury (which I was not on, all I heard was what was reported via the news), made their decision based on the evidence presented to them. Obviously, the defense was able to "poke enough holes" in the prosecutors theories to leave enough reasonable doubt in their minds and they therefore didn't convict.

The whole thing is, like Kevin said earlier, she deserved a fair trial. I feel that no matter where you are and what citizenship you are, you deserve a fair trail. I don't think evidence should be admitted that isn't conclusive. I don't think bashing of a defendent should be allowed. But that is just my opinion. Doesn't mean that the world is going to change, because it won't. But I can still have my opinion.

[I.A.S.K.]

Originally Posted by Kevin

As a life-long Oklahoman, I'm going to have to take a little bit of offense to that.

And it's not anti-Americanism I suspect. It's much simpler. You have an out of control prosecutor who doesn't give a damn about the guilt or evidence of the accused, she'll just do anything, including lie and cheat to win a conviction. And that sort of prosecutor, unfortunately isn't only found in Italy. We have them in Oklahoma also. Even so, there's no way in hell even our worst would attempt, much less get away with what the prosecutor in the Knox case has apparently done. Not even in the most backwater, rural, redneck part of this fine state would that happen.

Apparently, Italy's Code of Evidence allows prosecutors to bring in irrelevant, prejudicial and speculative character evidence to bolster their case. If that had been attempted in an American court (even an Oklahoman court as that's where I'm a licensed and practicing attorney), not only would much of what the prosecutor said about Knox have been thrown out, it also would have caused a mistrial.

It's also alleged that the prosecutor leaked false details to the media for the jury's consumption (as the jury wasn't sequestered).

And of course, you don't really have a case where the theory fit the facts and evidence.. (what little actual evidence there was).

I do hope this case is overturned on appeal and Ms. Knox is afforded a fair trial, which is probably impossible in Italy due to the absurd publicity. Every person charged with a crime deserves a fair hearing and Knox didn't get that.

And I guess I'd better stay out of Italy.. now that I've made some harsh comments regarding this prosecutor, I may be charged with defamation as it seems just about everyone connected to Ms. Knox has been. Anyone know what the statute of limitations for defamation is? Italy is a nice place and I'd like to visit again someday.

While I agree with the idea behind your points I must say it is inaccurate at best to claim that the underlined things would not happen in the US as they have happened and are currently happening. Have you seen American Violet? There are a plethora of cases that go on every single day in America that make the Knox case look fair and just.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by I.A.S.K.

While I agree with the idea behind your points I must say it is inaccurate at best to claim that the underlined things would not happen in the US as they have happened and are currently happening. Have you seen American Violet? There are a plethora of cases that go on every single day in America that make the Knox case look fair and just.

Some of the stuff the prosecutor said would *definitely* not be allowed in an American courtroom and would even possibly lead to a mistrial and/or sanctions for the prosecuting attorney -- at least if the things the ABA Journal articles I've read are true.

[Munchkin03]

I don't know what to think about this case at all. I've read about it for some time now, and I feel like I'm looking at a wide range of sources, but the only thing I know for sure is that she didn't get a fair trial. I can't even develop an opinion about whether or not she did it.