College's Too Fat to Graduate rule under fire.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by 33girl

That's a specific degree you're talking about, though. I'm sure a science major isn't forced to take BritLit 101. This doesn't have anything to do with degrees being granted, and I really question how it's going to assist any graduate in furthering their career. "Ah! You graduated from Lincoln U! Your BMI must be stellar - here, have this $100k advertising job immediately!"

I mean, if they were doing this to phys ed majors, I don't think anyone would be blinking an eyelash.

I understand what you're saying, but you could just as easily go with "core credits" or whatever and get around your objection. The fact of the matter is, colleges have had arbitrary standards students must meet in areas ranging from having sex to alcohol to education, and this doesn't seem out of line in comparison.

Beyond that, even if the "utilitarian" reason most people go to college is to get a job, the college is NOT (and should not) be slavish to that standard in the slightest. Colleges are not job factories nor career assembly plants - I'd guess every single college/university's motto and purpose statement includes a much grander purpose, whether or not it is met.

[APhiAnna]

I apologize in advance for the novel, but here are some thoughts.

I think that targeting people with a BMI over 30 is ridiculous and they should either make everybody take the class or have nobody take that.

With that being said, there are so many excuses in this thread that I can't take it anymore.

First, yes you can be skinny and unhealthy. But you cannot have a BMI of 30 (except for a negligible percentage of world class athletes) and call yourself healthy. There is no way.

I understand the limitations of the BMI system. For example, my brothers lift weights frequently and their BMI likely says they are more overweight than they are in reality. But that is not a difference of more than a couple digits.

I am really frustrated with the commonplace American rhetoric that IMPLIES (not SAYS, so save the counter-argument) that because some skinny people are malnourished that it is just as good to be obese. It is ridiculous! Sure there are some people out there who have super-metabolisms who can eat junk all day and stay skinny. But let's be honest, how big is that percentage really? And how many stay that way after their late teens/early twenties?

The other common argument is even more ridiculous: the statement that some people with low BMIs have eating disorders so that is just as unhealthy. Sure, a girl who has a low BMI because of an eating disorder is unhealthy, but if you have to use that as a foil for your obese BMI then you should already realize this hurts your argument more than it helps. Plus the BMI system ACCOUNTS for people who have "too low" of a BMI. It certainly does not claim they are healthy.

The truth of the matter is that after a certain age, the majority of people whose BMIs fall into the "healthy" range really ARE healthy. They eat well and they exercise. And guess what? By using portion control and restraint you can have an incredible body and skip a couple days of working out, eat a large french fries every now and then, etc. Since the rest of their habits are healthy, they can afford to indulge occasionally.

Sure, there is a genetic component to weight, and certain health issues can cause you to pack it on, but once you are reaching a BMI of 30??? You are playing yourself if you are telling yourself that is healthy.

There is a difference between self-acceptance and healthy. If you have no problems being obese and can accept yourself for it, that is fine. I understand that there is a lot of unhealthy pressure (especially against girls) to look a certain way. However you do have to understand that it is NOT healthy. Please do not tear down the accomplishments of being who try to be healthy so that they can live longer (scientifically proven) and live a healthier life.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

I understand what you're saying, but you could just as easily go with "core credits" or whatever and get around your objection. The fact of the matter is, colleges have had arbitrary standards students must meet in areas ranging from having sex to alcohol to education, and this doesn't seem out of line in comparison.

Core credits usually make you take A lit course, A science course, etc. There's a lot of wiggle room and you can find at least one thing you don't hate.

I just don't understand what physical fitness has to do with attaining a college degree, unless it IS your degree. The fact of the matter is, it's targeting all the wrong people, at the wrong age. Like I said, I'm sure my BMI was far below 30 in college. It's certainly not because I ate in a healthy manner or exercised - it was sheer luck and/or heredity. What usually happens is once you hit 35 or so, even if you were rail thin, your metabolism goes into the toilet and you gain weight. I wish I would have gotten more used to having to work out, etc when I was younger so I'd be better at it now. Not that I think the college should have taught me that, just saying that I wouldn't be a "target" for this class at age 21, but I might be now.

And I'm sure there are people who are overweight in college who once they get out of school, lose the weight. Keep in mind, there are guys who are STILL growing till around age 25.

I think the course in general is a waste of time, but if one person has to take it everyone should.

[DaemonSeid]

same thing isn't it?

College teaches you everything else...why not living healthy?

Anyone can lead you to water, you don't have to drink.

[pbear19]

But they aren't trying to teach their students to be healthy. They are singling out a select group of people based on outward appearances, with no attempt made to ascertain what their actual level of knowledge is. They are making an arbitrary decision based on a flawed measurement tool to determine who is and is not academically equipped with the knowledge of how to be healthy.

Having a 30+ BMI does not mean one is uneducated about health. To presume such is a huge error.

[rhoyaltempest]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

same thing isn't it?

College teaches you everything else...why not living healthy?

Anyone can lead you to water, you don't have to drink.

This may be but everyone should have to take the class. Having a BMI below 30 does not mean that you eat healthy and exercise and are knowledgeable about nutrition, nor does it mean that your bad habits won't one day lead to sickness and obesity. The class wouldn't be offensive if everyone were required to take it. If the school cares so much, they should care about ALL their students getting properly educated on this topic and being healthy, not just the ones that they can visibly see are possibly not healthy. Lots of people are unhealthy and sick on the inside and no one knows anything until they end up in the hospital or die of things that their unhealthy habits contributed to. Everyone can benefit from learning how to lead a healthy lifestyle. What's sad is that they don't get it.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by rhoyaltempest

This may be but everyone should have to take the class. Having a BMI below 30 does not mean that you eat healthy and exercise and are knowledgeable about nutrition, nor does it mean that your bad habits won't one day lead to sickness and obesity. The class wouldn't be offensive if everyone were required to take it. If the school cares so much, they should care about ALL their students getting properly educated on this topic and being healthy, not just the ones that they can visibly see are possibly not healthy. Lots of people are unhealthy and sick on the inside and no one knows anything until they end up in the hospital or die of things that their unhealthy habits contributed to. Everyone can benefit from learning how to lead a healthy lifestyle. What's sad is that they don't get it.

I do agree with this statement. Rather than argue that people that are obese are healthy, it is probably more appropriate to argue that EVERY student could benefit from learning healthy eating and living habits. One of the most harmful things we've done in our society is convince ourselves that since skinny people may not exercise or eat well that they are equally as "unhealthy" as obese people are. The research actually shows that normal weight people who exercise live longer than normal weight people who don't exercise who live longer than overweight people who exercise who live longer than overweight people that don't exercise. We've also done a disservice to people by not calling obesity when it's appropriate. It's a shock to know you are obese, but it gives you a realistic picture to the health risks you face.

[rhoyaltempest]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

I do agree with this statement. Rather than argue that people that are obese are healthy, it is probably more appropriate to argue that EVERY student could benefit from learning healthy eating and living habits. One of the most harmful things we've done in our society is convince ourselves that since skinny people may not exercise or eat well that they are equally as "unhealthy" as obese people are. The research actually shows that normal weight people who exercise live longer than normal weight people who don't exercise who live longer than overweight people who exercise who live longer than overweight people that don't exercise. We've also done a disservice to people by not calling obesity when it's appropriate. It's a shock to know you are obese, but it gives you a realistic picture to the health risks you face.

I'm not familiar with this philosophy. Of course being Obese is not healthy and NO ONE wants to be obese. The bigger issues for the obesed and all of us are Food Addiction, Bulimia (and other eating disorders), Our Food Industry, and how we relate to Food, Health, and Fitness in our society. It's not only Obese individuals that overindulge and are gluttonous when it comes to food. This is a societal problem and until we treat it as such and involve everyone as opposed to singling out a particular group, which causes other problems, including the eating disorders above, we will not be successful overall.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by rhoyaltempest

I'm not familiar with this philosophy. Of course being Obese is not healthy and NO ONE wants to be obese. The bigger issues for the obesed and all of us are Food Addiction, Bulimia (and other eating disorders), Our Food Industry, and how we relate to Food, Health, and Fitness in our society. It's not only Obese individuals that overindulge and are gluttonous when it comes to food. This is a societal problem and until we treat it as such and involve everyone as opposed to singling out a particular group, which causes other problems, including the eating disorders above, we will not be successful overall.

Clearly you are right, and our population is getting more and more obese at younger and younger ages (though you can't diagnose a child as obese, btw!) Anyway, even physicians get so used to seeing so many obese patients that we get immune to it and start thinking its normal. I can't tell you how many times I and many of my friends have said, "Oh, Mr. So and So is a little overweight..." looked down at chart, looked up and said, "oops, he's over 350 lbs! He doesn't look that big!"

My statement before, though, is a commonly held belief. "My skinny friends aren't any healthier than I am." It's not true. "I'm not really obese. My BMI is 30, but I'm big boned." No, you are obese. The BMI problem applies to a very small subset of elite athletes with extremely high muscle mass which is heavier than fat.

I, of course, say all of this as a life time over eater in a family of over eaters and type 2 diabetics. It is hard to control these behavioral patterns, but lying to yourself about your weight doesn't help.

[ThetaDancer]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

I do agree with this statement. Rather than argue that people that are obese are healthy, it is probably more appropriate to argue that EVERY student could benefit from learning healthy eating and living habits. One of the most harmful things we've done in our society is convince ourselves that since skinny people may not exercise or eat well that they are equally as "unhealthy" as obese people are. The research actually shows that normal weight people who exercise live longer than normal weight people who don't exercise who live longer than overweight people who exercise who live longer than overweight people that don't exercise. We've also done a disservice to people by not calling obesity when it's appropriate. It's a shock to know you are obese, but it gives you a realistic picture to the health risks you face.

I think this is well-written and I really agree with it.

[PM_Mama00]

Originally Posted by Kappamd

Maybe I missed this, but how do they figure out who is >30? Is there a class weigh-in or something?

Also, I was under the impression that most/all universities required some sort of physical education class. Am I grossly misinformed?

We didn't have to take a phys ed in college but I took Tennis for 2 years anyways just to keep with it. (played all through high school) Most of my friends either worked out at the fitness center or took Yoga or something.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by rhoyaltempest

This may be but everyone should have to take the class. Having a BMI below 30 does not mean that you eat healthy and exercise and are knowledgeable about nutrition, nor does it mean that your bad habits won't one day lead to sickness and obesity. The class wouldn't be offensive if everyone were required to take it. If the school cares so much, they should care about ALL their students getting properly educated on this topic and being healthy, not just the ones that they can visibly see are possibly not healthy. Lots of people are unhealthy and sick on the inside and no one knows anything until they end up in the hospital or die of things that their unhealthy habits contributed to. Everyone can benefit from learning how to lead a healthy lifestyle. What's sad is that they don't get it.

Agreed...as long as we know that not everyone will take that with them when they graduate.

You got no argument here.

[AGDee]

I'm really curious about the ins and outs of this. What if your BMI is below 30 until your last semester senior year? What if it's 29 one day and 30 the next and then goes back to 29? There is only one pound difference between a 29 and a 30 after all. Is this required if, at any point in your college career you hit 30? What if you get pregnant while you're in college? So many questions...

[Kappamd]

Maybe I missed this, but how do they figure out who is >30? Is there a class weigh-in or something?

Also, I was under the impression that most/all universities required some sort of physical education class. Am I grossly misinformed?

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by Kappamd

Maybe I missed this, but how do they figure out who is >30? Is there a class weigh-in or something?

Also, I was under the impression that most/all universities required some sort of physical education class. Am I grossly misinformed?

Possibly...I dont recall having to take PE in college...high school yes...