6-year-old expelled over Cub Scout utensil

[deepimpact2]

Originally Posted by SydneyK

Wow. It's pretty gutsy (read: ignorant) for a law student to call out someone with professional accomplishments the likes of MysticCat's.

Actually it isn't. After all, a majority of the people around here seem to feel that they can call out people in our government who have far more experience than they do in handling certain matters.

And if you notice, MC did say that I was right about the differences and the fact that there really isn't likely a due process issue at stake here.

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

Actually it isn't. After all, a majority of the people around here seem to feel that they can call out people in our government who have far more experience than they do in handling certain matters.

You mean like the people on here who called out the Bush Administration about interrogation tactics, without being privy to the precise intelligence information?

(Not saying I support them, just pointing out that the "first-hand experience cannot be questioned" argument cuts both ways)

[deepimpact2]

Originally Posted by KSigkid

You mean like the people on here who called out the Bush Administration about interrogation tactics, without being privy to the precise intelligence information?

(Not saying I support them, just pointing out that the "first-hand experience cannot be questioned" argument cuts both ways)

I didn't see those posts so I don't know what was said.

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

I didn't see those posts so I don't know what was said.

My point was that people tend to make that argument when their favored politician is in office - when the other party is in office, it then tends to be ok to criticize the President. As an example, under that logic, no one could criticize Bush's policy choices, as he had intelligence available to him that wasn't available to the general public.

As to this particular story: I don't have a problem with "a" punishment for the kid bringing a knife to school, but I think that the punishment in question was a bit out of line. If you have a kid bringing a gun to school, then fine, I think that raises things to another level.

But there, with the tool involved, I wonder why they don't have this policy: take away the item, bring the kid to the principal's office, and call the parents. I feel like in situations like this, a procedure like that would suffice.

Originally Posted by Senusret I

Something to think about.... the waning popularity of the scouting movement among parents, school systems, and communities?

Is popularity really waning? I'd agree, in that my perception is that it seemed like a lot more kids were in the scouting program when I was a little kid, but I also haven't worked in early childhood education for a few years. I also haven't seen any stats that speak to that issue.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by KSigkid

But there, with the tool involved, I wonder why they don't have this policy: take away the item, bring the kid to the principal's office, and call the parents. I feel like in situations like this, a procedure like that would suffice.

COMMON SENSE AT WORK!




That's not a knife.




Now THAT'S a KNIFE.

[deepimpact2]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

COMMON SENSE AT WORK!




That's not a knife.




Now THAT'S a KNIFE.

A knife is a knife. Either one can inflict injury. It is a slippery slope indeed to try and have different ways of handling a weapon based whether a person thinks one weapon is not as big as the other or some other such foolishness.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

The Scouter in me feels constrained to point out that, as excited as this kid was, he wouldn't (or shouldn't) have been allowed to carry that or any other knife at any Scout functions. Before a knife can be carried, the Scout must earn his whittling chip, which is typically earned as a Bear Scout (third grade) and which demonstrates that he knows how to use a knife safely.

[aopirose]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

The Scouter in me feels constrained to point out that, as excited as this kid was, he wouldn't (or shouldn't) have been allowed to carry that or any other knife at any Scout functions. Before a knife can be carried, the Scout must earn his whittling chip, which is typically earned as a Bear Scout (third grade) and which demonstrates that he knows how to use a knife safely.

Speaking as a Den Leader, I understand that feeling, but the Whittling Chip can be earned at any CS Rank. It just happens to be a requirement of one of 24 Bear Achievements and Bears don't even have to earn it to achieve Rank because they only need to earn 12.

But you are right, a CS cannot carry a pocketknife, including one in a multi-tool, to a designated Scout event without first earning Whittling Chip.

Speaking as a mom, I was a Nervous Nelly when my Den worked on Whittling Chip and never would have attempted it with my Tigers. The first thing my son did when he opened his knife was to cut himself. A bandaid took care of it.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by gamma

Did you ever go on camping trips with you scout master? Did he tell you that you were special?

MMITY?

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito

It's funny, but I usually stop reading a thread in this forum when I see certain people post, for I know the train wreck is to come.

You're not the only one. But some days, I have just have to watch the train wreck.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

You know folks...I am just an average Joe here, legal jargon aside...but back to what ForeverRoses and I were alluding to earlier...whatever happened to simply calling the parents to the school and having a private discussion with the admin and said parents and K.I.M?

Have we become that paranoid a society that we have to get the law involved for everything?

Times like this (not to mention the fact the we need crash helmets for kids with Big Wheels) is why I DON'T want kids.

What should happen (in my view):

Teacher sees kid with knife. Teacher asks him about it. He tells her he just joined Cub Scouts and it's his new knife from his mess kit. Teacher says, "I know you're excited and I'm glad for you, but you know it's against the rules to bring a knife to school. I'm going to need to take it for now; it will be in the office. Your parents can pick it up there. Please remember not to bring knives to school again. Thanks." (Can't give it back to him in case he rides a bus or something.) When the parents pick it up, they are reminded, nicely, that son can't be bringing knives to school. Done.

But thanks to a variety of occurences, many school boards have decided that, for the kids' safety and because of liability concerns, they have to demonstrate ZERO TOLERANCE. The something comes along to show how ZERO TOLERANCE is an over-reaction, and how one size doesn't fit all, and we hope some common sense creeps in.

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

Did you actually SEE what he took to school? it was more than a piece of "cutlery." What's goofy is a bunch of folks acting like a knife is acceptable at school.

I haven't seen anyone acting like a knife is acceptable at school. People have been saying that there are better ways to handle a situation like this.

Originally Posted by Senusret I

Something to think about.... the waning popularity of the scouting movement among parents, school systems, and communities?

I don't really think so. That's not at all a universal phenomenon. It's waning in some places but not in others, and even where school systems are not supportive, per se, they're not necessarily antagonistic -- they just don't let recruiting or meetings happen on school property. (Or they let it happen on school property as long as it's the PTA and not the school itself in charge.) Many school systems are quite supportive of Scouting. (And in my experience, at least, most teachers are.) Some systems that aren't as supportive aren't because of the things that gather media support, while others have reached the decision that even though they'd have no problem letting the Scouts (Boy and Girl) in, they can't because then they might not be able to say "no" to a group they don't like.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

What should happen (in my view):

Teacher sees kid with knife. Teacher asks him about it. He tells her he just joined Cub Scouts and it's his new knife from his mess kit. Teacher says, "I know you're excited and I'm glad for you, but you know it's against the rules to bring a knife to school. I'm going to need to take it for now; it will be in the office. Your parents can pick it up there. Please remember not to bring knives to school again. Thanks." (Can't give it back to him in case he rides a bus or something.) When the parents pick it up, they are reminded, nicely, that son can't be bringing knives to school. Done.

^^^Common sense AT WORK!

[srmom]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

What should happen (in my view):

Teacher sees kid with knife. Teacher asks him about it. He tells her he just joined Cub Scouts and it's his new knife from his mess kit. Teacher says, "I know you're excited and I'm glad for you, but you know it's against the rules to bring a knife to school. I'm going to need to take it for now; it will be in the office. Your parents can pick it up there. Please remember not to bring knives to school again. Thanks." (Can't give it back to him in case he rides a bus or something.) When the parents pick it up, they are reminded, nicely, that son can't be bringing knives to school. Done.

Yes, this is the answer.

In this particular case, the boy had no intention of bringing a "weapon" to school. He had never been told it was a "weapon", it was just a nifty eating gadget.

Intention should be taken into consideration.