John Muhammad's execution date is set

[AnotherKD]

Originally Posted by christiangirl

I am definitely saddened about this for several reasons, mostly because hearing that a date has been set brings back the memories of back when this was happening and I get sad whenever I think about that. Part of me doesn't want to see him die because it's yet another death on the list. It's hard to explain. It's not that what he did isn't serious enough to deserve to die. What he did was totally heinous and pretty much unforgivable. He caused so much pain and fear in this country that I totally see why people want him to "burn in hell," I feel that way too to a certain extent. But there were so many deaths from this one case and each one brought so much sadness and mourning, each one was a blow...I don't want to see yet another death come from the same case, even though I understand that this is the one who started it all. IDK if I explained it well enough to understand.

Could you tell me what the positive gain would be for keeping this person alive and in prison for the rest of his life? Do you see any problem with the Bible saying both "Thou Shalt Not Kill" but also saying "An eye for an eye"?

I'm asking these questions with no hint of sarcasm or insult- I am truly interested in your answer. I've never really asked someone before.

[naraht]

Originally Posted by AnotherKD

Could you tell me what the positive gain would be for keeping this person alive and in prison for the rest of his life? Do you see any problem with the Bible saying both "Thou Shalt Not Kill" but also saying "An eye for an eye"?

I'm asking these questions with no hint of sarcasm or insult- I am truly interested in your answer. I've never really asked someone before.

Unfortunately, the most appropriate response to that is that by the time the bible got from Hebrew, to Greek to Latin to English in the KJV, the multiple translations led to a poor translation of the original Hebrew. However, the issue is less in the 16th century with the english translation and more with the Latin Vulgate.

The hebrew "harog" means to kill, the hebrew "retzach" means to murder. The Hebrew in the Ten Commandments is "Lo tirtzach" "You (Plural) will not murder".
(See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Com...ling_or_murder and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prefixes_in_Hebrew (if you really want to understand how the Tav prefix indicates tense and number))

[AnotherKD]

Originally Posted by naraht

Unfortunately, the most appropriate response to that is that by the time the bible got from Hebrew, to Greek to Latin to English in the KJV, the multiple translations led to a poor translation of the original Hebrew. However, the issue is less in the 16th century with the english translation and more with the Latin Vulgate.

The hebrew "harog" means to kill, the hebrew "retzach" means to murder. The Hebrew in the Ten Commandments is "Lo tirtzach" "You (Plural) will not murder".
(See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Com...ling_or_murder and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prefixes_in_Hebrew (if you really want to understand how the Tav prefix indicates tense and number))

I had no idea. That is really interesting... (Again, an HONEST comment with no snark attached at all... it's hard to get emotions through posts )

[naraht]

Originally Posted by AnotherKD

I had no idea. That is really interesting... (Again, an HONEST comment with no snark attached at all... it's hard to get emotions through posts )

No problem. The other thing that gets absolutely wonderful with the ten commandments is that the commandments aren't actually numbered in any place that they are found in the bible. And so different groups numbered them different ways.

So if you have a list that has "Honor your mother and father" as the 4th commandment, that indicates that the Catholics/Lutherans are doing it right and everyone else is doing it wrong. If "Honor your mother and father" is the 5th commandment, then that indicates that the Catholics/Lutherans are doing it wrong and everyone else is doing it right.

Also, even within the non-Catholic/Lutherans, the division of the first two commandments is done differently with the Jews doing it one way, the Eastern Orthodox doing it another and most protestant groups doing it a third. See (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Com...d_in_Exodus_20)

[christiangirl]

Originally Posted by AnotherKD

Could you tell me what the positive gain would be for keeping this person alive and in prison for the rest of his life? Do you see any problem with the Bible saying both "Thou Shalt Not Kill" but also saying "An eye for an eye"?

I'm asking these questions with no hint of sarcasm or insult- I am truly interested in your answer. I've never really asked someone before.

Hmmm...okay I don't really think of it too much in a Biblical context, it's always just been what I feel on the matter. Well, aside from my believing no human has the right to take the life of another no matter what they've done...I mean, I can't say they don't deserve to die because they may very well, but IMO it's not up to anyone but God to take a life that He created.

But let me just say that (speaking in realms outside of the Bible) I've never seen death like most people so I've never seen ending someone's life as a punishment. When someone is executed (in this country) it's usually lethal injection or something else that goes really quickly. They are made quite comfortable with sedatives before they just slip away, quicker and easier than falling asleep. While he's alive, he could be racked with guilt, remorse, and shame. If he has no remorse, he will at least feel the punishment of being locked up with no freedom. Plus, jails have programs that put prisoners to work so he'll forced to be useful and do some good in this world. But if he's dead, he doesn't feel anything, he's not good for anything, he's not aware of the horrors he's committed. He's made quiet comfortable, sedated, then it's over quick and easy as falling asleep. Where's the punishment in that? If I have to live the rest of my life being tortured by the pain of losing my loved one, why would I feel better that the evil man who stole them from me is in the ground with not a care in the world?

Now, as fas as the conflicting verses, you're right, the Bible says both. However, that Commandment ("do not kill") was given directly to Moses by God, but the Exodus reference ("an eye for an eye") was more in reference to Jewish law. The courts are to instruct a man to give his eye if he took the eye of another (note: he is instructed to do it himself, no third person or court personnel makes it their business to do it to him). I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure it's not particularly what God says but an example of the law of the people. Plus, Jesus refutes this statement in Matthew 5 anyway, telling people NOT to retaliate but instead "turn the other cheek." I hope I answered you okay!

[naraht]

Originally Posted by christiangirl

Now, as fas as the conflicting verses, you're right, the Bible says both. However, that Commandment ("do not kill") was given directly to Moses by God...

See my comment above on the Hebrew scripture and the difference in Hebrew between kill and murder.

[cheerfulgreek]

Originally Posted by AnotherKD

"An eye for an eye"?

THIS!

[RU OX Alum]

Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek

THIS!

"An eye for an eye" was actually a civilizing law for humanity. Before that, it was "kill you and rape your wife and steal your children and cattle for an eye."

Yay, Hammurabi, or whoever.

[cheerfulgreek]

Originally Posted by RU OX Alum

"An eye for an eye" was actually a civilizing law for humanity. Before that, it was "kill you and rape your wife and steal your children and cattle for an eye."

Yay, Hammurabi, or whoever.

Well, I'm talking about "an eye for an eye" as in you murder, you get murdered....and that very day. Not 30 years later.