Did Texas execute an innocent man?

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek

Huh? How is it cheaper to keep them for life? What if a person is given the death penalty, and that death penalty that was given, is appealed through the courts for 30-40 years? Because that's what always seems to take place. Kevin, I'm not talking about "life" in prison, because that could possibly be 1/3 of the actual sentence as opposed to life in prison without parole. So, I'm talking about life in prison without parole. Kevin, you know more than I do, but I'm asking. How would that be cheaper? I'm guessing (depending on the state) it probably cost the tax payer about $50,000 to $60,000 dollars per year per inmate, so why not just use the death penalty for those who are not getting out of prison and assess the penalty of death at the time sentencing without appeal? It's just that I can't see how keeping them in prison could possibly be cheaper. I just think that doing it this way would just eliminate a bad person from society, and it would also save money that could be used somewhere else.

It's the appeals process that kicks in with death sentences that make them that much more expensive, I'm pretty sure.

That and the initial expense of the trials is higher, I'm pretty sure as well.

[cheerfulgreek]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

It's the appeals process that kicks in with death sentences that make them that much more expensive, I'm pretty sure.

Right. So why even have one?

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek

Right. So why even have one?

Because a great many Americans are concerned about executing an innocent person or are concerned about executing someone without due process.

On a perverse level, I bet the deterrent effect of the death penalty might go way up if a lot more people were summarily executed immediately after conviction but you'd have to do it on a massive scale. You think it would be worth it, Cheerfulgreek?

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

On a perverse level, I bet the deterrent effect of the death penalty might go way up if a lot more people were summarily executed immediately after conviction but you'd have to do it on a massive scale. You think it would be worth it, Cheerfulgreek?

That works great in China. Used to (still does?) work well in Russia. Completely stopped all of their crime.

-- no wait.. it didn't.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by Kevin

That works great in China. Used to (still does?) work well in Russia. Completely stopped all of their crime.

-- no wait.. it didn't.

Did anyone say it would completely stop it?

And you may have actually made my point for me about Russia. Do you have the impression that crime is up or down under a less oppressive, or at least differently oppressive government?

ETA: actually this might be pretty hard to judge. But my impression is that criminal enterprise is up in Russia compared to when it was part of the USSR.

I'm not in favor of them, but I do think that completely oppressive governments have less street crime.

EATA: Actually, I have no idea. I had kind of forgotten about the large number of governments that manage to be that amazing combination of really oppressive and completely dysfunctional, unlike how I think of China and the former Soviet Union, which are/were oppressive and controlling.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._homicide_rate


up to 1999

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...e_rate_to_1999

That presents a comparison between a Soviet total and a Russian total, but who knows what part of the Soviet total was based on the geographic area limited to Russia.

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

Did anyone say it would completely stop it?

And you may have actually made my point for me about Russia. Do you have the impression that crime is up or down under a less oppressive, or at least differently oppressive government?

ETA: actually this might be pretty hard to judge. But my impression is that criminal enterprise is up.

I'm not in favor of them, but I do think that completely oppressive governments have less street crime.

Then I guess I don't get your point. Are you trying to argue in favor of immediate execution upon conviction?

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by KSigkid

Then I guess I don't get your point. Are you trying to argue in favor of immediate execution upon conviction?

Nope. I was just acknowledging that this kind of oppression might have an upside to Cheerfulgreek.

It's not one that would be worth it to me.

Kevin seemed to suggest that China and Russia previously had dabbled in similarly oppressive policies without seeing those results, and I think he's wrong about that.

ETA: I'm not a fan of China's policies, and I'm not sure if any reported crime rates from the governments have any foundation in reality at all. However, I suspect that their crime rates would be much higher without their oppressive judicial policies. Similarly, caning the bejesus out of people may help keep the graffiti down in Singapore.

I don't want to see similar policies in the US and condemn China, USSR, and Singapore for having them, but they may in fact affect crime rates.

ETA: Similarly, I bet you could bend speeding rates down to about zero if the officer just shot people at the side of the road. I'm not in favor, but I think it would "work".