Private Pool Bans Minority Campers

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Kevlar281

It was a joke. This is what I consider racist.

Congratulations on finding white victims of a perceived hate crime. Your point?

[knight_shadow]

HUNTINGDON VALLEY, Pa. – The head of a private suburban Philadelphia swim club on Friday defended its cancellation of the memberships of dozens of minority children, saying safety, not racism, was the reason.

"We deeply regret this whole situation," John Duesler, president of the board of directors of The Valley Club, told reporters Friday afternoon at the entrance to the club in the leafy suburb of Huntingdon Valley.

[ full story ]

Nice attempt at spinning this, I guess.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

HUNTINGDON VALLEY, Pa. – The head of a private suburban Philadelphia swim club on Friday defended its cancellation of the memberships of dozens of minority children, saying safety, not racism, was the reason.

"We deeply regret this whole situation," John Duesler, president of the board of directors of The Valley Club, told reporters Friday afternoon at the entrance to the club in the leafy suburb of Huntingdon Valley.

[ full story ]

Nice attempt at spinning this, I guess.

I understand and can relate to both sides of the issue. But I think unfamiliarity and unwillingness to share (based on social class and race) are what breeded the contempt. Safety is just a more PC catch word.

I hope this situation is handled somehow and this relatively uninteresting story dies down.

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Other than that, this story doesn't move me.

Originally Posted by DrPhil

this relatively uninteresting story

Haha, don't hold back, tell us how you really feel.

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

Nice attempt at spinning this, I guess.

They should either hire a competent PR person, or at least put a gag order on this guy.

[Little32]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

HUNTINGDON VALLEY, Pa. – The head of a private suburban Philadelphia swim club on Friday defended its cancellation of the memberships of dozens of minority children, saying safety, not racism, was the reason.

"We deeply regret this whole situation," John Duesler, president of the board of directors of The Valley Club, told reporters Friday afternoon at the entrance to the club in the leafy suburb of Huntingdon Valley.

[ full story ]

Nice attempt at spinning this, I guess.

A friend and I were discussing this and one of the questions we had was if any other camps had visited before hand. I will have to forward this article.

Also @Phil I suppose it is ok to be blase about this story, but these are real children who are being affected by what they perceive to be racism and/or classism (whether that perception is accurate or not). Though I guess we can all agree, based on available information, that even if the club owner's response was not motivated by race, the responses of some of the patrons were. Note the children's response to their, to use Morrison's term, "disallowing." That is always noteworthy.

[DrPhil]

This is a relatively uninteresting and nongroundbreaking story to me, so are the reactions to this incident that I've heard elsewhere. A lot of people (not here but elsewhere) are very outraged, not because these are kids but because people are easily outraged over race relations.

My apathy toward the story as reported and people's responses is separate from the social significance of the alleged incident and how it should be handled.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

HUNTINGDON VALLEY, Pa. – The head of a private suburban Philadelphia swim club on Friday defended its cancellation of the memberships of dozens of minority children, saying safety, not racism, was the reason.

I think that saying they cancelled their "memberships" is a bit over the top and improper spin by the AP. Membership in a private club is something individuals apply for. These children were being permitted to swim there for the summer ONLY - on Mondays ONLY - because of an agreement a camp they were attending made with the club. It was more like having a day pass.

Not that I don't think the whole thing is ridiculous and racist, but the appropriate terminology should be used. Implying these children were "members" inflames the situation further.

[Elephant Walk]

While I completely disagree with the racism on all fronts:

I hope the pool's decision is not struck down by the courts. It is a private institution that receives no tax dollars. It should "theoretically" be able to serve whoever it wants. The consumer (both white and black) can act in response to this. But it is a private institution and the government should not be able to have any say in whom it serves. Whether that will happen or not is another case. (And it won't.)

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

While I completely disagree with the racism on all fronts:

I hope the pool's decision is not struck down by the courts. It is a private institution that receives no tax dollars. It should "theoretically" be able to serve whoever it wants. The consumer (both white and black) can act in response to this. But it is a private institution and the government should not be able to have any say in whom it serves. Whether that will happen or not is another case. (And it won't.)

I agree with that. Even the restaurant in the notorious Katzenbach v. McClung case (where the SCOTUS said that racial discrimination in places of public accommodation was a burden on interstate commerce) was able to avoid the effect of the court's pronouncement by becoming a private club which only admitted whites.

I'd think though that business would be pretty bad for a club openly discriminating against blacks. No one wants to be associated with that. That's probably part of why the private club has done a 180 on its decision. No doubt many members cancelled their memberships over this incident and would continue to do so until something was done (I would).

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I'd think though that business would be pretty bad for a club openly discriminating against blacks. No one wants to be associated with that. That's probably part of why the private club has done a 180 on its decision. No doubt many members cancelled their memberships over this incident and would continue to do so until something was done (I would).

This almost goes back to what I was saying earlier. What institution in their right mind in today's society would allow archaic rules like this to be set in place, whether written or not?

Yes, to a degree they may have a 'right' to serve whomever they want, but all the same, it's outdated thinking that is perpetuated because the people involved let it be so.

What becomes interesting is not the color of people who are or aren't allowed to utilize the facility, it's the color of what keeps this place open.

Green.

To a point, one can say that the club didn't want to be seen as racist, thus the quick 180 as you mentioned.

Furthermore, being seen as such could also open the club for retaliation such as...lawsuits which could affect their bottom line should they lose their case or once people catch wind that they are being dragged into court because of this type of thinking.

I won't assume that's what going on but, in today's society when shyte like this occurs, you don't have to always protest, just threaten a person's pockets.

[deepimpact2]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I'd think though that business would be pretty bad for a club openly discriminating against blacks. No one wants to be associated with that.

You don't actually believe that do you? If that really was the case, do you really think there would still be all-white country clubs and other private clubs? That really is a rather naive sentiment you have expressed there. Business doesn't always flounder for businesses that discriminate against blacks. And there are people who don't mind being associated with that. Billy Graham was a member of an all-white country club for years. Clearly he had no problem with it.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

You don't actually believe that do you? If that really was the case, do you really think there would still be all-white country clubs and other private clubs? That really is a rather naive sentiment you have expressed there. Business doesn't always flounder for businesses that discriminate against blacks. And there are people who don't mind being associated with that. Billy Graham was a member of an all-white country club for years. Clearly he had no problem with it.

I really don't have a problem with all-white country clubs. If I played golf, I might even belong to one. Diversity wouldn't be on my list of things I care about either way. I'm more interested in the facilities and the membership.

Membership requirements for those clubs vary. Usually, you have to get a sponsor, usually, the shareholders have to vote and typically, the vote requirement is very high... at least that's the case for country clubs with any sort of prestige attached to them. The view at these sorts of places is pretty simple -- they don't discriminate based upon race, they just haven't had a subjectively qualified person of color apply. That might sound like a fiction to you, but really, do you think minorities are even applying?

You might have a case if Colin Powell gets turned down for membership somewhere, but that hasn't happened.

There are highly selective black organizations out there such as Jack and Jill. They don't admit whites (as far as I know) and that's just fine with everyone. Their racial requirements are express, unlike country clubs where you have a circumstantial case at best for racially based exclusions. And in J&J's case, you don't have whites banging down the door for admission either.

Now, when one of these organizations admits a black person and then turns around and boots them because they're "changing the complexion," we'd have a serious problem. I suppose the difference is superficial, but real. People will belong to these organizations so long as the organizations help these people to achieve what they want to achieve.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I really don't have a problem with all-white country clubs. If I played golf, I might even belong to one. Diversity wouldn't be on my list of things I care about either way. I'm more interested in the facilities and the membership.

Membership requirements for those clubs vary. Usually, you have to get a sponsor, usually, the shareholders have to vote and typically, the vote requirement is very high... at least that's the case for country clubs with any sort of prestige attached to them.

As the significant other of an avid golfer (who is Black, as am I), this has definitely been our experience. Many of the clubs that were once exclusively white, including those that intentionally excluded nonwhites, now have Black members. These Black members were mostly sponsored by white members and are professionals who are of the upper social class designation of the existing members.

Originally Posted by Kevin

The view at these sorts of places is pretty simple -- they don't discriminate based upon race, they just haven't had a subjectively qualified person of color apply. That might sound like a fiction to you, but really, do you think minorities are even applying?

In general, minorities aren't flooding the gates however it is not true that none of these clubs intentionally discriminated based on race. More clubs are allowing sprinkles of nonwhites but there is still a racial tipping point in some of these clubs as there is in predominantly white neigbhorhoods.

[Taualumna]

Maybe I come from a very different environment, but I personally would have issues with country clubs which admit only one race. I don't know about where you're from, Kevin, but there are a lot of non-whites up here who'd be wonderful candidates at exclusive clubs. Many are already members. Say you're a wealthy businessperson from Singapore. You've had a foreign education since middle school (prep school in the US, followed by two degrees, each from an Ivy). You go home to work a few years, establish yourself and then go to the US...permanently. You're an avid golfer. You'd like to join the club in your town, and your accomplishments, connections, etc would make you a likely candidate....except for one thing....you're Asian.

Kevin, have you met someone like this? And what about someone from Asia who belongs to a recipricol club?