If No Deferred Recruitment, What's A Good Alternative?

[ASTalumna06]

Things have been a little crazy in the recruitment department lately at PSB. We received word a few weeks ago that there will be no deferred recruitment for this upcoming school year. I believe that the administration is testing the waters to see how this works and whether or not the GLOs slip (more so academically than anything else) by allowing first semester freshmen to join. From there, they'll determine whether or not this will continue the following year and beyond.

From what I have heard, the supplemental new member program might be implemented. How this will work, I have no idea. Right now, I think some people, myself included, are simply frustrated because all of this information is coming to everyone over the summer through emails and phone calls. But I digress...

Basically, I'm looking for statistics (but not official ones, of course). I am wondering how bidding first semester freshmen will work on this campus, and I just want to get a general idea of what other's experiences were like. I think my greatest concern is whether or not first semester freshmen will see this as being too overwhelming to stick with it... especially considering we're not at a school where people know what it means to be Greek, and it's instilled in them when they're 5 that they have to join a GLO. So let me know...

1.) In general, how would you describe Greek life on your campus? (competitive vs. non-competitve, percentage of students who are Greek, location of the school: north vs. south, etc... be as specific as you'd like)
1.) Did your school have deferred recruitment?
2.) What was total? Or if you didn't reach total (or didn't follow this system at all) what was your average chapter size while at school?
3.) What were average new member class sizes for your chapter?
4.) On average, how many freshmen dropped out during the new member program? ... or provide more specific numbers if you have them and want to disclose that information.
5.) If a significant number of them dropped, for the most part, what were the reasons? (In trouble academically, too time consuming, money issues, etc.)
6.) Any other info that you think would be helpful.

Again, I'm not looking for anything official here. I'm just curious to see these trends in a general sense from other schools.

[ComradesTrue]

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

1.) In general, how would you describe Greek life on your campus? (competitive vs. non-competitve, percentage of students who are Greek, location of the school: north vs. south, etc... be as specific as you'd like)
1.) Did your school have deferred recruitment?
2.) What was total? Or if you didn't reach total (or didn't follow this system at all) what was your average chapter size while at school?
3.) What were average new member class sizes for your chapter?
4.) On average, how many freshmen dropped out during the new member program? ... or provide more specific numbers if you have them and want to disclose that information.
5.) If a significant number of them dropped, for the most part, what were the reasons? (In trouble academically, too time consuming, money issues, etc.)
6.) Any other info that you think would be helpful.

Like I mentioned before, this is a very different type of Greek Life system that what you have. Let me know if you have more questions. I was in school from 91-95. em_adpi just graduated this year, so she may be able to add some current details.


TCU/Texas Christian University:
1. Rush is competitive. When I was there approx 40% of women were members of an NPC organization. There were 10 houses when I pledged, and then one closed soon after that. Greek Life was an integral part of the entire campus culture. Many women came to campus with knowledge of the system and the houses. When people referenced you on campus it almost always included your Greek membership.

2. My memory is a bit fuzzy, but I am thinking total was about 140, with most houses between 120-150. The variation stemmed from numbers of transfers. We tended to lose several members a year to that.

3. The four years that I was there quota ranged from 38-44.

4. While I was there we lost exactly one person prior to initiation. Two of those years pledgeships were for a full semester. That was probably pretty typical for all chapters... between 0-2 depledges over the entire four years. There were a few of the 10 chapters that probably had more depldges- the house that closed lost a bunch in their last two years and one or two other houses would have a handful (1-5) depledge each year.

5. The girl that dropped from our chapter just felt that Greek Life wasn't for her. Another girl dropped from another chapter for a similar reason- she wanted to be involved in some other organizations and in the time squeeze she opted out of the sorority. One person dropped near the end of the semester when she realized that she wasn't going to make grades to get initiated (refer back to full semester pledgeships; members had to make a 2.25 to be initiated. Those that didn't would have to wait another semester, and then over the summer too! She didn't want to wait and have the stigma of being a "holdover").

For the chapters that I referenced that had a few more members drop out I believe the reasons were more varied: less organized chapters, disapointment with not getting first choice on bid day, etc. On our campus the reason for dropping was very rarely financial.

6. At the time that I was there we only had Fall Formal Rush. COB carried a stigma, for some (stupid) reason. Two chapters did it, but not in a very open manner. Two additional chapters were doing it by my senior year, getting great girls, and the stigma started to wane. I am not sure how much COB there is today. Maybe em_adpi can chime in.

While we did have houses, they were university owned, and all built structurally the same in a townhouse type style. Each house slept 36 members, and so those 36 people paid the university the same rate as if they lived in the dorm. This covered the housing expense. Therefore dues were relatively low, as for the most part, they did not have to cover a house. (a small portion of dues would go for furnishings, remodeling common areas, etc). That is why I referenced that few people dropped due to financial reasons.

I hope that this helps!

[pearlbubbles]

First, I just wanted to say that I agree about all the points made about the "tier" system and the educational program. I think anything official that uses "tier" will give people the wrong impression. And, most importantly, may have incoming freshmen end up in houses that aren't right for them because either the fraternities' push for the higher GPA guys or that the incoming freshmen may misinterpret the point of the "tier." And I have this feeling that the national organizations would be less than pleased that some fraternities were getting recruiting leg-ups. No one wants more Greek organizations closing, after all.

Also, I think it's terrible to put this on the NPC community right before the end of school. It doesn't sound like a terribly put-together plan at all, and I feel like that will be one of the biggest issues with it. And I don't even want to think about suddenly letting people know to get recs in for PNMs.

With all that said, I can give a little bit of insight into this. My school, CU Boulder, used Formal Fall until a risk management issue (ighly publicized, no need to re-mention) in Fall 2004. The University created a document called the "Registered Fraternal Organizations Agreement" (RFOA) and asked all the Greeks to sign it; one of its major stipulations was deferred recuitment. All 10 NPCs and all eleven (I think?) multi-cultural Greek organizations signed it. The fraternities decided not to, so they are no longer recognized members of our Greek system--basically meaning they don't get any specific sort of help from the university, like the Greek Advisor or school sponsored webpages. They can still advertise their recruitment though--they do quite a bit of chalking on campus.

Between the years 2006 and 2008, the sororities did deffered recruitment. We lost one of the NPCs during that time due to low numbers. But in Spring 2008, the community approved a new agreement called "The Standards of Excellence." I'm not quite sure of the specific details, but the ones I do remember are as follows:

1. Two New Member education classes. One the day following Bid Day that's a sort of "So Now You're Greek..." type of thing. The second is a alcohol education class.

2. Completion of the online Greeklife.edu Or, whatever it's called now. When I went through, it was just alcohol.edu.

3. A forty-day new member period where the sororites are suposed to promote sisterhood. Any social events can either be: Sisters only (21+ allowed to drink) or sisters and a fraternity (no alcohol). (I won't go into this any more, but I'm sure you all can insinuate the "barrel of fun" nature of it.)

Now, with that background, on to the specific answers to the questions. I will try to provide fraternity informaton as well, where I know it.

1.) In general, how would you describe Greek life on your campus?

I'd say it's pretty competitive. In the two years I was around for formal spring, around 600 girls went through recruitment. This past fall, about 900 went through. We currently have around 1500 women in the Greek system.

2.) Did your school have deferred recruitment?

As I mentioned above, we were deferred for a three-year period due to risk management control.

3.) What was total? Or if you didn't reach total (or didn't follow this system at all) what was your average chapter size while at school? What were average new member class sizes for your chapter?
I'm not quite sure on total the year I was a new member, but the new member classes were between thirty and forty women. The next year the new member class sizes were the same and total was 130 or so. This year, our total was about 170, and new member classes were between sixty and seventy women.

4.) On average, how many freshmen dropped out during the new member program? ... or provide more specific numbers if you have them and want to disclose that information.

This is the thing that bothers me about deferred versus formal fall. If formal recruitment is deferred, less girls go through recruitment, but more of them stay. In formal fall, more go through, but more drop out. The difference, though, is that even with the higher number of girls dropping out, the number retained through formal fall is higher than the number received through deferred. Sorry about the tangent.

I think in the two years I was there for deferred, about 1-5 women dropped, but they were necessarily all new members. The fall numbers, I can't say specifically what the numbers for the other chapters were, but we ended up initiating 54 out of the 74 who originally received bids. From what I heard from friends, the other houses were about the same.

5.) If a significant number of them dropped, for the most part, what were the reasons? (In trouble academically, too time consuming, money issues, etc.)

I think a majority of the formal fall drops were because the women decided that Greek life didn't end up being what they expected it to be. Although, I know that quite a few were due to financial reasons.


I hope this has helped. And I apologize for being so long-winded.


ETA: I forgot to write information about the fraternities. They do both Formal Fall and Formal Spring. I'm not sure about drop numbers, but I know a few of my friends have left for finances and it just not being their thing. The guys don't have total, but the chapter numbers range from 20 men to 120 men. It just varies from fraternity to fraternity. We currently have fifteen active fraternities.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by pearlbubbles

This is the thing that bothers me about deferred versus formal fall. If formal recruitment is deferred, less girls go through recruitment, but more of them stay. In formal fall, more go through, but more drop out. The difference, though, is that even with the higher number of girls dropping out, the number retained through formal fall is higher than the number received through deferred.

When you say "retained" do you mean just to initiation, or throughout their college career? Or is it really too early for you guys to tell?

[pearlbubbles]

Originally Posted by 33girl

When you say "retained" do you mean just to initiation, or throughout their college career? Or is it really too early for you guys to tell?

Unfortunately, just through initiation. I think this last semester we lost a few extras due to transfers, finances, and university withdrawal. But we were still right around total.

[ASTalumna06]

Thanks everyone for your responses. I think what I should have included in there was whether or not your chapter received/required recs and/or resumes (if you can share that information). I think that when I pictured PSB turning away from deferred recruitment, the entire process would be a lot more organized. For the fraternities, it's not really that much of a problem. But for the sororities, it's kind of a different story.

From what I understand (and someone correct me if I'm wrong), the majority of schools without deferred recruitment are generally ones with larger chapters, more competitive recruitment periods, and numerous recs being received for PNMs. PSB still has none of these things.

The other thing I'm confused about... Generally our larger new member classes have come in the spring. There has been talk about implementing minimally/partially structured recruitment for the upcoming spring semester. Again, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it a little backwards to be allowing first semester freshmen to receive bids AND having a more formal kind of recruitment in the spring? I can't think of any campus where this occurs.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

Thanks everyone for your responses. I think what I should have included in there was whether or not your chapter received/required recs and/or resumes (if you can share that information). I think that when I pictured PSB turning away from deferred recruitment, the entire process would be a lot more organized. For the fraternities, it's not really that much of a problem. But for the sororities, it's kind of a different story.

From what I understand (and someone correct me if I'm wrong), the majority of schools without deferred recruitment are generally ones with larger chapters, more competitive recruitment periods, and numerous recs being received for PNMs. PSB still has none of these things.

You have it right - the chapters at Bama, LSU etc have girls signing up 6 months in advance and are receiving recs - so when the girls walk into rush parties, they really aren't complete strangers. As opposed to the girls having up until the day before or even the day of to sign up, as I assume you guys have.

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

The other thing I'm confused about... Generally our larger new member classes have come in the spring. There has been talk about implementing minimally/partially structured recruitment for the upcoming spring semester. Again, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it a little backwards to be allowing first semester freshmen to receive bids AND having a more formal kind of recruitment in the spring? I can't think of any campus where this occurs.

It is VERY backwards, for girls anyway. See my earlier post. It should be one of two ways:

-If first semester freshmen can rush: fall rush should be structured and formal, this is when most people join, women rushing must visit every sorority at least once. In the spring, a minimally structured or completely nonstructured rush can be employed.

-If freshmen have to wait till second semester: fall rush is primarily for upperclassmen and is minimally structured. Spring rush is formal.

The whole point is - freshmen should NEVER be allowed to join a sorority without meeting all the groups at least once. (Again, this applies to girls.) It completely flies in the face of all the regulations NPC has made over the years to make things fairer for the sororities and for the rushees.

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by 33girl

You have it right - the chapters at Bama, LSU etc have girls signing up 6 months in advance and are receiving recs - so when the girls walk into rush parties, they really aren't complete strangers. As opposed to the girls having up until the day before or even the day of to sign up, as I assume you guys have.

It is VERY backwards, for girls anyway. See my earlier post. It should be one of two ways:

-If first semester freshmen can rush: fall rush should be structured and formal, this is when most people join, women rushing must visit every sorority at least once. In the spring, a minimally structured or completely nonstructured rush can be employed.

-If freshmen have to wait till second semester: fall rush is primarily for upperclassmen and is minimally structured. Spring rush is formal.

The whole point is - freshmen should NEVER be allowed to join a sorority without meeting all the groups at least once. (Again, this applies to girls.) It completely flies in the face of all the regulations NPC has made over the years to make things fairer for the sororities and for the rushees.

This is the problem... no one even has to sign up. The one thing that they added to the upcoming fall recruitment period is a kick-off recruitment event (like the one we have in the spring). The PNMs are required to attend parties put on by each chapter, but there's no sign-up, so if a PNM doesn't attend that event, it doesn't matter. They can just show up at the next one put on by which ever chapter they like.

My chapter doesn't do this, and I'm not implying that the others do either, but it leaves room for people to believe that other chapters are telling girls who are interested in their particular chapter, "Don't worry about showing up to this event.. just come to the next one."

And another huge problem is that sisters here don't understand the whole concept of "meeting every chapter" and "mutual selection" and "we're all Greek together". Hell, I didn't when I was at school, either. Only having COB puts everyone into a competitive mindset. However, I try to explain things like this to them, and they look at me like I have two heads. And because COB is all they've ever known, I try to tell them that the point of COB is basically to "fill in the empty spaces after formal", but they don't understand.

I tend to be believe that this whole system of first semester bidding/spring formal will throw off the entire total/quota process.

And I also think that waaay too many things are changing at once, without any of the smaller details being given a second look.