Race & Sororities

[LadyLonghorn]

I don't mean this in a snarky way at all, but have any of the NPC sororities at Ole Miss ever had an African American or bi-racial member?

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

Exactly, especially when you consider that at some HBCUs, the majority of graduate students are white because of programs in architecture, pharmacy, and agriculture.

That can actually be used as an example of social exclusion, since the leadership and funding for most HBCUs don't come from Blacks. This would be based on outcome and not intent, so folks (not you) shouldn't respond with "they might not mean for it to be that way."

The higher up in HBCU faculty rankings and in the organizational structures, for some of the more esteemed HBCUs, the more nonBlacks you find than Blacks. I have actually been told by faculty that having more whites and other nonBlacks brings up their prestige ranking (which is arguably an informal/unwritten component of accreditation).

On the other hand, you will be hard pressed to find PWIs where a large proportion of the higher ranking faculty, higher ranking administrators, and most of the graduate students are Black. Even Research 1 PWIs with 20,000 students and lots of faculty only have a relatively few esteemed tenured "sprinkles." That's why there are still minority faculty and graduate student associations. Even PhDs with years of awards and recognitions know the deal. As for grad students, a large % may be nonwhite, but usually not Black.

(Of course, much of this also has to do with population sizes for whites as compared to Blacks, which is another reason why the larger universities are PWIs)

[SWTXBelle]

[QUOTE=LadyLonghorn;1809824]I don't mean this in a snarky way at all, but have any of the NPC sororities at Ole Miss ever had an African American or bi-racial member?[/QUOTE


I think this will be tough to answer, because NPC groups do not keep records according to race. An Ole Miss alum might be able to report on his/her experience, but that would both subjective and not necessarily representative.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

That's why there are still minority faculty and graduate student associations. Even PhDs with years of awards and recognitions know the deal. As for grad students, a large % may be nonwhite, but usually not Black.

Do you think this has anything to do with region or discipline, or even Masters programs over PhD programs? Granted, my individual graduate school (Architecture) was overwhelmingly majority white and Asian, but there were other schools (ex. Social Work and Public Health) within the University that had more blacks and Latinos than whites and Asians.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by FSUZeta

not meaning to kumbaya, but while we might assume that an african-american pnm was not extended a bid by the most sought after chapter on campus was because she was african american, we don't know for sure unless we sat in on the membership selection. many factors are considered as chapters evaluate pnms for membership-race may or may not be one of those factors. noone, not even the blue-eyed blonde super model pre-med pnm has a guarantee that she will get a bid.

assuming that an african american pnm chose a lower tier npc chapter because that was all she could get and the chapter was just desparate for warm bodies does a disservice to the pnm and the chapter. whose to say that it was not love at first sight for the pnm and that chapter?

But, we all know that sometimes that IS the case. I've seen it happen over and over at specific campuses--and although we also like to talk about how membership selection is the private business of the chapter, let's not pretend that there are chapter members who are less than discreet about their membership selection!

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

Do you think this has anything to do with region or discipline, or even Masters programs over PhD programs? Granted, my individual graduate school (Architecture) was overwhelmingly majority white and Asian, but there were other schools (ex. Social Work and Public Health) within the University that had more blacks and Latinos than whites and Asians.

The general pattern exists across region, discipline, and graduate program. General patterns aren't meant to apply to 100% of the cases.

Let's take disciplines like social work and the social sciences, in general, which had a sharp increase in minorities and women over the last 30 years. Social work, for example, is now considered a non-traditional field for men, which now translates to it being one of the lower paying specializations for women depending on the research, teaching, and practitioner base.

Even with the increase in women and minorities, there are (women and racial and ethnic) minority faculty and student organizations to serves as networking tools, and to address concerns. Many of these faculty feel they are unable to climb the ranks in white and/or white male dominated field and/or department. Part of that is because most of these women and racial and ethnic minorities aren't the key decision makers. Students often don't notice that a lot of the diverse faces they see are either adjunct, nontenured full-time faculty, and are overworked and underpaid in comparison to the other faculty in the department and/or university. Even the tenured minority faculty often don't become department heads and graduate directors--unless the departments have no other alternatives--they often don't have a voice in the department and are on the sidelines doing research/teaching/mentoring.

[SWTXBelle]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

But, we all know that sometimes that IS the case. I've seen it happen over and over at specific campuses--and although we also like to talk about how membership selection is the private business of the chapter, let's not pretend that there are chapter members who are less than discreet about their membership selection!

And, in my experience, sometimes those same chapter members (the ones who are not discreet) are the same ones who really don't know what they are talking about - they may run around saying "We didn't bid So-n-so because she is black", but 1.) this is a stupid person, so take everything she says with a grain of salt and 2.) that may have been discussed, but ultimately it comes down to a vote, and no one can say with 100% certainty why their sisters chose to vote the way they did - yet another reason to NEVER DISCUSS MEMBERSHIP SELECTION.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

And, in my experience, sometimes those same chapter members (the ones who are not discreet) are the same ones who really don't know what they are talking about - they may run around saying "We didn't bid So-n-so because she is black", but 1.) this is a stupid person, so take everything she says with a grain of salt and 2.) that may have been discussed, but ultimately it comes down to a vote, and no one can say with 100% certainty why their sisters chose to vote the way they did - yet another reason to NEVER DISCUSS MEMBERSHIP SELECTION.

Definitely don't discuss membership selection with nonmembers.

But, the decision making process isn't such a mystery in many instances. Many chapters talk to each other in great detail about how they feel about applicants and why they voted. Some chapters are simply unfortunate enough to have members who tell chapter business.

[brwn skn 79]

To be blunt, race is an issue...and it will/can/does become an issue when one is trying to gain access in a org that is predominantly one race.......just being realistic, but good luck. And don't think that black sororities don't have members of other races in them as my organization has plenty of indviduals of other races and we look past that.......we look for your drive, high character, leadership skills and commitment.....color does not dictate that...

[SWTXBelle]

Originally Posted by brwn skn 79

To be blunt, race is an issue...and it will/can/does become an issue when one is trying to gain access in a org that is predominantly one race.......just being realistic, but good luck. And don't think that black sororities don't have members of other races in them as my organization has plenty of indviduals of other races and we look past that.......we look for your drive, high character, leadership skills and commitment.....color does not dictate that...

Which is it? That race is an issue if you are "trying to gain access in a(sic) org that is predominantly one race"(for example, your predominantly black GLO) or that it is possible for a GLO to "look for your drive, high character, leadership skills and commitment.....(sic) color does not dictate that". ?

An issue? Yes, it can be - but , if I may tweak your own words - don't think that white sororities don't have members of other races in them as my organization (NPC) has plenty of individuals of other races. We look past that. We look for your drive, high character, leadership skills and commitment. Color does not dictate that.

[tld221]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

Which is it? That race is an issue if you are "trying to gain access in a(sic) org that is predominantly one race"(for example, your predominantly black GLO) or that it is possible for a GLO to "look for your drive, high character, leadership skills and commitment.....(sic) color does not dictate that". ?

An issue? Yes, it can be - but , if I may tweak your own words - don't think that white sororities don't have members of other races in them as my organization (NPC) has plenty of individuals of other races. We look past that. We look for your drive, high character, leadership skills and commitment. Color does not dictate that.

co-sign: you said what i was thinking.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

Which is it? That race is an issue if you are "trying to gain access in a(sic) org that is predominantly one race"(for example, your predominantly black GLO) or that it is possible for a GLO to "look for your drive, high character, leadership skills and commitment.....(sic) color does not dictate that". ?

An issue? Yes, it can be - but , if I may tweak your own words - don't think that white sororities don't have members of other races in them as my organization (NPC) has plenty of individuals of other races. We look past that. We look for your drive, high character, leadership skills and commitment. Color does not dictate that.

I think she was trying to say that race is only a factor for the white sororities. LOL.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Even with the increase in women and minorities, there are (women and racial and ethnic) minority faculty and student organizations to serves as networking tools, and to address concerns. Many of these faculty feel they are unable to climb the ranks in white and/or white male dominated field and/or department. Part of that is because most of these women and racial and ethnic minorities aren't the key decision makers. Students often don't notice that a lot of the diverse faces they see are either adjunct, nontenured full-time faculty, and are overworked and underpaid in comparison to the other faculty in the department and/or university. Even the tenured minority faculty often don't become department heads and graduate directors--unless the departments have no other alternatives--they often don't have a voice in the department and are on the sidelines doing research/teaching/mentoring.

Oh, this is absolutely true. I just wondered if it was a national trend. I know that I'm in an extremely white, extremely male-centered field (hi, 200 black female architects in the US!), so when I look at friends in B-school, law school, and especially PhD programs in the social sciences, their cohorts seem infinitely more diverse than any of my classes were. I guess it's all relative.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

Oh, this is absolutely true. I just wondered if it was a national trend. I know that I'm in an extremely white, extremely male-centered field (hi, 200 black female architects in the US!).

Interesting, I didn't know that.

[SWTXBelle]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

I think she was trying to say that race is only a factor for the white sororities. LOL.

Oh - silly me!