Race & Sororities

[FSUZeta]

Originally Posted by cbm

I think it's probably difficult for any black woman to get a 100% fair rush in the South or parts of the Midwest, partly due to the fact that 99% of rushees are white. I went to a Big 12 with a very active Greek system and only recall 3-4 black rushees coming through while I was on the chapter side of rush. They all got bids to decent houses.

you might be pleasantly surprised cbm, that many southern chapters have members of ethnicities other than caucasian.

[SWTXBelle]

Originally Posted by cbm

I think it's probably difficult for any black woman to get a 100% fair rush in the South or parts of the Midwest, partly due to the fact that 99% of rushees are white.

I'd be interested as to what exactly you are basing this on - first, what do you define as "100% fair rush"? There are plenty of white women who don't feel they had "100% fair rush". Trust me - their mothers will come here and complain about it. There are many reasons why any woman, black, white, purple or green, might not be extended a bid to a sorority. Legacies are cut on a regular basis - does that mean they weren't given a "100% fair rush"? Unless you were in the membership selection of a particular chapter, you cannot say with any certainty why a pnm was not invited back or given a bid. Is it possible race could be a factor? Of course - but you shouldn't present what is a possibility as a fact.

Not knowing ANYTHING about the membership selection of the chapters in the South and Midwest you reference, and also not knowing ANYTHING about the black pnms who do go through recruitment, you really should not make a gross generalization like this. It's the kind of comment which could influence black women and convince them there is no point in going through recruitment. Then the problem becomes a vicious circle. No black pnms go through recruitment, so chapters remain largely white.

I personally know of many southern and midwestern G Phi Bs of color - a veritible rainbow of sisters. The best way to solve the issue of race is to encourage women to go through recruitment - not telling them it is "probably" difficult based simply on your gut instinct. By your own admission, in the seemingly enlightened Big 12 you only had 3 - 4 black pnms going through - so why aren't there more? And does that mean your chapters are 99% white? If so, does that mean it is because of racism?

[baci]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

I'd be interested as to what exactly you are basing this on - first, what do you define as "100% fair rush"? There are plenty of white women who don't feel they had "100% fair rush". Trust me - their mothers will come here and complain about it. There are many reasons why any woman, black, white, purple or green, might not be extended a bid to a sorority. Legacies are cut on a regular basis - does that mean they weren't given a "100% fair rush"? Unless you were in the membership selection of a particular chapter, you cannot say with any certainty why a pnm was not invited back or given a bid. Is it possible race could be a factor? Of course - but you shouldn't present what is a possibility as a fact.

Not knowing ANYTHING about the membership selection of the chapters in the South and Midwest you reference, and also not knowing ANYTHING about the black pnms who do go through recruitment, you really should not make a gross generalization like this. It's the kind of comment which could influence black women and convince them there is no point in going through recruitment. Then the problem becomes a vicious circle. No black pnms go through recruitment, so chapters remain largely white.

I personally know of many southern and midwestern G Phi Bs of color - a veritible rainbow of sisters. The best way to solve the issue of race is to encourage women to go through recruitment - not telling them it is "probably" difficult based simply on your gut instinct. By your own admission, in the seemingly enlightened Big 12 you only had 3 - 4 black pnms going through - so why aren't there more? And does that mean your chapters are 99% white? If so, does that mean it is because of racism?

I would have to pretty much agree with SWTXBelle on her above post.

I know countless "white" females that don't meet with success during recruitment and what do we say about that? When it comes to "people of color" (and I mean any other color than one classified as "white") really think about how many people go through recruitment. In most cases (notice I say most), we do know if you go through the process you will be placed somewhere. Maybe it is just that "people of color" choose not to go through recruitment for numerous reasons.

To even begin to bring the thought of racism into it is quite sad. We definitely do not know the selection process in every single sorority on every campus. Might there be some that would not vote for a "person of color" - sure. It could very well be that same group that does not vote many white people into their membership. (Is it then fair for those white PNM's) To say some of the things that have been said truly keep women from even entering the process and as a result, keep "people of color" from pledging.

It is hard on some campuses to be "white" and be selected into membership. I truly feel each woman needs to stand on her own two feet with confidence and go through the system. It is with great hope that this person does go through rush and give the process a chance. I wish her the very best and I hope she comes back and tells us all about her experiences.

[Ghostwriter]

I cannot speak for Ole Miss but I can assure you that many large national sororities have multi-cultural members. Both my daughters attended a large southern university and were members of a large national sorority. They had white, hispanic, asian and black sisters. Don't be surprised to see the same thing at other large southern universities. Racism is not dead, of course, but it is not really as big a factor down south as people presume.

[LΩVE]

Originally Posted by cbm

I did not mean for the OP to hide her race, I should have clarified... I would not make a mention of her race being a deciding factor to the sororities when obtaining recs or during rush. This was in response to her comment re: limiting herself.

I think it's probably difficult for any black woman to get a 100% fair rush in the South or parts of the Midwest, partly due to the fact that 99% of rushees are white. I went to a Big 12 with a very active Greek system and only recall 3-4 black rushees coming through while I was on the chapter side of rush. They all got bids to decent houses.

On the campus where I was an active member being non-white actually helped a PNM, though that in itself isn't really fair to them. But very few non-white PNM's go through recruitment every year. And my campus is in the deep south.

[DDDlady]

Ole Miss is a campus and a Greek system that is steeped in old traditions. That being said, you will never know what will happen unless you give it a try. The best advice I can give you is be the best PNM you can be. Get recs (they will be a must), polish your conversation skills, have a stellar GPA, be involved, and with regards to race, do not make it an issue. Just be true to yourself and show them what you have to offer as a new member. Also, since Ole Miss does rush a little later in the semester, be on your best behavior when out and about in Oxford.

[DDDlady]

Also, since Ole Miss is a competitive campus, I would advise that you be discreet and not advertise your name and school too much. Just to be on the safe side. Good luck!

Thank you all!
I've read many good answers.
I like the ones that aren't sugar-coated.
I will rush!
Even if I don't make it, everything will be fine.
I'm strong enough to handle it.
Thanks for the help guys!

[OPhiAGinger]

Originally Posted by Ghostwriter

IRacism ... is not really as big a factor down south as people presume.

Agreed. Though I have no insight into the demographic makeup of our Ole Miss chapter today, I worked with their founding mothers during our Ole Miss colonization several years ago. I was proud that they included women from a variety of backgrounds including women of color.

To the OP, keep all your options open: NPC, NPHC, multi-cultural orgs, and service orgs. Ole Miss has so much to offer!

[libramunoz]

Originally Posted by Ghostwriter

Racism is not dead, of course, but it is not really as big a factor down south as people presume.

I beg to differ. Racism, especially in the South, is as big a factor as people DO and TEND TO presume. I went to school in the South, the Heart of Dixie, and lemme tell you, it wasn't easy, pretty, or damn right at times! When you can still go into courthouses in the south, and if you look hard enough (which sometimes isn't too hard) and you can still see a door that says "Colored Only" then you'll KNOW that racism is still an issue and it's still a HUGE factor in the SOUTH.
Why do you think that MOST HBCU's are in the south? I don't know of many on the West Coast and very few on the upper East Coast.
Racism will always be a factor and it depends on HOW the person makes a choice to deal with it when a) it's presented to them overtly, b) it's presented to them covertly, c) their constantly reminded through daily actions of others, and d) it's a factor within the persons surroundings and enviornment.
So to say that it's not a true factor DOWN SOUTH, you are presuming very much. Sometimes, they saying of "Walk a mile in my shoes" turns out to be more true than what a person tends to "want" to think.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by libramunoz

So to say that it's not a true factor DOWN SOUTH, you are presuming very much. Sometimes, they saying of "Walk a mile in my shoes" turns out to be more true than what a person tends to "want" to think.

"Not really as big a factor...as people assume" versus "HUGE" are subjective and unnecessary distinctions. He acknowledged that it isn't dead, so you agree with him.

And the interesting thing is that you agree without his needing to wear your shoes. Woohoo!

[SWTXBelle]

Originally Posted by libramunoz

I beg to differ. Racism, especially in the South, is as big a factor as people DO and TEND TO presume. I went to school in the South, the Heart of Dixie, and lemme tell you, it wasn't easy, pretty, or damn right at times! When you can still go into courthouses in the south, and if you look hard enough (which sometimes isn't too hard) and you can still see a door that says "Colored Only" then you'll KNOW that racism is still an issue and it's still a HUGE factor in the SOUTH.
Why do you think that MOST HBCU's are in the south? I don't know of many on the West Coast and very few on the upper East Coast.
Racism will always be a factor and it depends on HOW the person makes a choice to deal with it when a) it's presented to them overtly, b) it's presented to them covertly, c) their constantly reminded through daily actions of others, and d) it's a factor within the persons surroundings and enviornment.
So to say that it's not a true factor DOWN SOUTH, you are presuming very much. Sometimes, they saying of "Walk a mile in my shoes" turns out to be more true than what a person tends to "want" to think.

Most of the HBCUs are in the south because at the time of their founding black students could not attend HWCUs in the south. That is no longer the case. So to argue that most HBCUs are in the south because of continuing racism is wrong - these same HBCUs are now struggling. Is that because racism is no longer an issue? If they go under, does that mean racism is dead?

I know of ONE courthouse that had a sign that could be seen and which was in the news a few years back - it is of course no longer there. Where are these others?

My point - and others - is that it is wrong to assume that racism is more of a problem in the south, or that the other parts of the country are free from them. By arguing that it is the south that has a problem, you give everyone else a free pass. Some sociologists have said that the south is in many ways more in touch with the problem of racism because of its past problems - that other areas of the country have a more "hidden" racism, that it can be argued is more toxic and damaging. In the context of this OP - you can ASSUME that racism means a bi-racial woman would never get a bid at Ole Miss, but until you go through recruitment you won't KNOW - and even then, you wouldn't know that it was because of race. It may be that at a school which has no blacks in the NPC sororities it isn't because of racism, but because of a strong NPHC system.

[DrPhil]

Yeah the HBCU example isn't a really good one. HBCUs are remnants of individual and institutional racism. They are struggling as are many traditional institutions of the "Black community" that thrived during a time when exclusion was more overtly prevalent. Some see this struggle to mean that Blacks no longer need HBCUs, or any other traditional institution, because racism is dead. That's a faulty logical leap which is inaccurate based on the data. But, there is a sound premise regarding what it means when institutions decline in significance.

A better example would be to address the conditions that most of these HBCUs are in and the surrounding communities. It is no coincidence that most of these HBCUs service a disproportionately low income demographic and are in low income surroundings. That's the intersection of race and social class in this highly segregated society. Along with that comes socioeconomic exclusion that perpetuates the disproportionately Black underclass. THAT is what majority-minority racism is really about in the past generation--NOT about signs on doors, being called racial slurs, or whether a biracial woman will get a bid at Ole Miss. Those are relatively rare so they shouldn't be used as metrics.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

Most of the HBCUs are in the south because at the time of their founding black students could not attend HWCUs in the south. That is no longer the case. So to argue that most HBCUs are in the south because of continuing racism is wrong - these same HBCUs are now struggling. Is that because racism is no longer an issue? If they go under, does that mean racism is dead?

Exactly, especially when you consider that at some HBCUs, the majority of graduate students are white because of programs in architecture, pharmacy, and agriculture.

A lot of people are saying that there are diverse chapters all over the country. No one is denying that. Again, private colleges and smaller state schools in the South with less of an entrenched native population are more open to integrating their chapters than others. The greek systems at Emory and Tulane are integrated--but that's probably because the schools pull a good chunk of their populations from the Northeast and West Coast.

But, what the OP needs to know is that at many of the flagship universities in the South, an African-American female who rushes may not be considered an "attractive" prospect by some of the top chapters (regardless of how awesome her personality, grades, and extracurrics are), and may end up being relegated to the bottom tier of chapters in her school. Now, we can be all kumbaya about that and say that maybe the bottom tier chapters would be more willing to look past race and see sisterhood. Or, we could go with a much more likely explanation--those lower tier sororities have much less to "lose" because their numbers are pretty low. I've seen this in play at some SEC and Big 12 schools.

[FSUZeta]

not meaning to kumbaya, but while we might assume that an african-american pnm was not extended a bid by the most sought after chapter on campus was because she was african american, we don't know for sure unless we sat in on the membership selection. many factors are considered as chapters evaluate pnms for membership-race may or may not be one of those factors. noone, not even the blue-eyed blonde super model pre-med pnm has a guarantee that she will get a bid.

assuming that an african american pnm chose a lower tier npc chapter because that was all she could get and the chapter was just desperate for warm bodies does a disservice to the pnm and the chapter. who's to say that it was not love at first sight for the pnm and that chapter?