Race & Sororities

[SWTXBelle]

Originally Posted by cbm

I think it's probably difficult for any black woman to get a 100% fair rush in the South or parts of the Midwest, partly due to the fact that 99% of rushees are white.

I'd be interested as to what exactly you are basing this on - first, what do you define as "100% fair rush"? There are plenty of white women who don't feel they had "100% fair rush". Trust me - their mothers will come here and complain about it. There are many reasons why any woman, black, white, purple or green, might not be extended a bid to a sorority. Legacies are cut on a regular basis - does that mean they weren't given a "100% fair rush"? Unless you were in the membership selection of a particular chapter, you cannot say with any certainty why a pnm was not invited back or given a bid. Is it possible race could be a factor? Of course - but you shouldn't present what is a possibility as a fact.

Not knowing ANYTHING about the membership selection of the chapters in the South and Midwest you reference, and also not knowing ANYTHING about the black pnms who do go through recruitment, you really should not make a gross generalization like this. It's the kind of comment which could influence black women and convince them there is no point in going through recruitment. Then the problem becomes a vicious circle. No black pnms go through recruitment, so chapters remain largely white.

I personally know of many southern and midwestern G Phi Bs of color - a veritible rainbow of sisters. The best way to solve the issue of race is to encourage women to go through recruitment - not telling them it is "probably" difficult based simply on your gut instinct. By your own admission, in the seemingly enlightened Big 12 you only had 3 - 4 black pnms going through - so why aren't there more? And does that mean your chapters are 99% white? If so, does that mean it is because of racism?

[baci]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

I'd be interested as to what exactly you are basing this on - first, what do you define as "100% fair rush"? There are plenty of white women who don't feel they had "100% fair rush". Trust me - their mothers will come here and complain about it. There are many reasons why any woman, black, white, purple or green, might not be extended a bid to a sorority. Legacies are cut on a regular basis - does that mean they weren't given a "100% fair rush"? Unless you were in the membership selection of a particular chapter, you cannot say with any certainty why a pnm was not invited back or given a bid. Is it possible race could be a factor? Of course - but you shouldn't present what is a possibility as a fact.

Not knowing ANYTHING about the membership selection of the chapters in the South and Midwest you reference, and also not knowing ANYTHING about the black pnms who do go through recruitment, you really should not make a gross generalization like this. It's the kind of comment which could influence black women and convince them there is no point in going through recruitment. Then the problem becomes a vicious circle. No black pnms go through recruitment, so chapters remain largely white.

I personally know of many southern and midwestern G Phi Bs of color - a veritible rainbow of sisters. The best way to solve the issue of race is to encourage women to go through recruitment - not telling them it is "probably" difficult based simply on your gut instinct. By your own admission, in the seemingly enlightened Big 12 you only had 3 - 4 black pnms going through - so why aren't there more? And does that mean your chapters are 99% white? If so, does that mean it is because of racism?

I would have to pretty much agree with SWTXBelle on her above post.

I know countless "white" females that don't meet with success during recruitment and what do we say about that? When it comes to "people of color" (and I mean any other color than one classified as "white") really think about how many people go through recruitment. In most cases (notice I say most), we do know if you go through the process you will be placed somewhere. Maybe it is just that "people of color" choose not to go through recruitment for numerous reasons.

To even begin to bring the thought of racism into it is quite sad. We definitely do not know the selection process in every single sorority on every campus. Might there be some that would not vote for a "person of color" - sure. It could very well be that same group that does not vote many white people into their membership. (Is it then fair for those white PNM's) To say some of the things that have been said truly keep women from even entering the process and as a result, keep "people of color" from pledging.

It is hard on some campuses to be "white" and be selected into membership. I truly feel each woman needs to stand on her own two feet with confidence and go through the system. It is with great hope that this person does go through rush and give the process a chance. I wish her the very best and I hope she comes back and tells us all about her experiences.

[Ghostwriter]

I cannot speak for Ole Miss but I can assure you that many large national sororities have multi-cultural members. Both my daughters attended a large southern university and were members of a large national sorority. They had white, hispanic, asian and black sisters. Don't be surprised to see the same thing at other large southern universities. Racism is not dead, of course, but it is not really as big a factor down south as people presume.

[OPhiAGinger]

Originally Posted by Ghostwriter

IRacism ... is not really as big a factor down south as people presume.

Agreed. Though I have no insight into the demographic makeup of our Ole Miss chapter today, I worked with their founding mothers during our Ole Miss colonization several years ago. I was proud that they included women from a variety of backgrounds including women of color.

To the OP, keep all your options open: NPC, NPHC, multi-cultural orgs, and service orgs. Ole Miss has so much to offer!

[libramunoz]

Originally Posted by Ghostwriter

Racism is not dead, of course, but it is not really as big a factor down south as people presume.

I beg to differ. Racism, especially in the South, is as big a factor as people DO and TEND TO presume. I went to school in the South, the Heart of Dixie, and lemme tell you, it wasn't easy, pretty, or damn right at times! When you can still go into courthouses in the south, and if you look hard enough (which sometimes isn't too hard) and you can still see a door that says "Colored Only" then you'll KNOW that racism is still an issue and it's still a HUGE factor in the SOUTH.
Why do you think that MOST HBCU's are in the south? I don't know of many on the West Coast and very few on the upper East Coast.
Racism will always be a factor and it depends on HOW the person makes a choice to deal with it when a) it's presented to them overtly, b) it's presented to them covertly, c) their constantly reminded through daily actions of others, and d) it's a factor within the persons surroundings and enviornment.
So to say that it's not a true factor DOWN SOUTH, you are presuming very much. Sometimes, they saying of "Walk a mile in my shoes" turns out to be more true than what a person tends to "want" to think.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by libramunoz

So to say that it's not a true factor DOWN SOUTH, you are presuming very much. Sometimes, they saying of "Walk a mile in my shoes" turns out to be more true than what a person tends to "want" to think.

"Not really as big a factor...as people assume" versus "HUGE" are subjective and unnecessary distinctions. He acknowledged that it isn't dead, so you agree with him.

And the interesting thing is that you agree without his needing to wear your shoes. Woohoo!

[SWTXBelle]

Originally Posted by libramunoz

I beg to differ. Racism, especially in the South, is as big a factor as people DO and TEND TO presume. I went to school in the South, the Heart of Dixie, and lemme tell you, it wasn't easy, pretty, or damn right at times! When you can still go into courthouses in the south, and if you look hard enough (which sometimes isn't too hard) and you can still see a door that says "Colored Only" then you'll KNOW that racism is still an issue and it's still a HUGE factor in the SOUTH.
Why do you think that MOST HBCU's are in the south? I don't know of many on the West Coast and very few on the upper East Coast.
Racism will always be a factor and it depends on HOW the person makes a choice to deal with it when a) it's presented to them overtly, b) it's presented to them covertly, c) their constantly reminded through daily actions of others, and d) it's a factor within the persons surroundings and enviornment.
So to say that it's not a true factor DOWN SOUTH, you are presuming very much. Sometimes, they saying of "Walk a mile in my shoes" turns out to be more true than what a person tends to "want" to think.

Most of the HBCUs are in the south because at the time of their founding black students could not attend HWCUs in the south. That is no longer the case. So to argue that most HBCUs are in the south because of continuing racism is wrong - these same HBCUs are now struggling. Is that because racism is no longer an issue? If they go under, does that mean racism is dead?

I know of ONE courthouse that had a sign that could be seen and which was in the news a few years back - it is of course no longer there. Where are these others?

My point - and others - is that it is wrong to assume that racism is more of a problem in the south, or that the other parts of the country are free from them. By arguing that it is the south that has a problem, you give everyone else a free pass. Some sociologists have said that the south is in many ways more in touch with the problem of racism because of its past problems - that other areas of the country have a more "hidden" racism, that it can be argued is more toxic and damaging. In the context of this OP - you can ASSUME that racism means a bi-racial woman would never get a bid at Ole Miss, but until you go through recruitment you won't KNOW - and even then, you wouldn't know that it was because of race. It may be that at a school which has no blacks in the NPC sororities it isn't because of racism, but because of a strong NPHC system.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

Most of the HBCUs are in the south because at the time of their founding black students could not attend HWCUs in the south. That is no longer the case. So to argue that most HBCUs are in the south because of continuing racism is wrong - these same HBCUs are now struggling. Is that because racism is no longer an issue? If they go under, does that mean racism is dead?

Exactly, especially when you consider that at some HBCUs, the majority of graduate students are white because of programs in architecture, pharmacy, and agriculture.

A lot of people are saying that there are diverse chapters all over the country. No one is denying that. Again, private colleges and smaller state schools in the South with less of an entrenched native population are more open to integrating their chapters than others. The greek systems at Emory and Tulane are integrated--but that's probably because the schools pull a good chunk of their populations from the Northeast and West Coast.

But, what the OP needs to know is that at many of the flagship universities in the South, an African-American female who rushes may not be considered an "attractive" prospect by some of the top chapters (regardless of how awesome her personality, grades, and extracurrics are), and may end up being relegated to the bottom tier of chapters in her school. Now, we can be all kumbaya about that and say that maybe the bottom tier chapters would be more willing to look past race and see sisterhood. Or, we could go with a much more likely explanation--those lower tier sororities have much less to "lose" because their numbers are pretty low. I've seen this in play at some SEC and Big 12 schools.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

Exactly, especially when you consider that at some HBCUs, the majority of graduate students are white because of programs in architecture, pharmacy, and agriculture.

That can actually be used as an example of social exclusion, since the leadership and funding for most HBCUs don't come from Blacks. This would be based on outcome and not intent, so folks (not you) shouldn't respond with "they might not mean for it to be that way."

The higher up in HBCU faculty rankings and in the organizational structures, for some of the more esteemed HBCUs, the more nonBlacks you find than Blacks. I have actually been told by faculty that having more whites and other nonBlacks brings up their prestige ranking (which is arguably an informal/unwritten component of accreditation).

On the other hand, you will be hard pressed to find PWIs where a large proportion of the higher ranking faculty, higher ranking administrators, and most of the graduate students are Black. Even Research 1 PWIs with 20,000 students and lots of faculty only have a relatively few esteemed tenured "sprinkles." That's why there are still minority faculty and graduate student associations. Even PhDs with years of awards and recognitions know the deal. As for grad students, a large % may be nonwhite, but usually not Black.

(Of course, much of this also has to do with population sizes for whites as compared to Blacks, which is another reason why the larger universities are PWIs)